The Last Guardian and all things Ueda pasty present and future
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JonB wrote:The helmet is optional, fortunately, and probably more trouble than it's worth.
Wait, what helmet?Gamgertag: JRPC
PSN: Lastability95 -
I think you need to take a detour to get a helmet to make a guard come alive so you can go behind him to get a barrel. Or something.I am a FREE. I am not MAN. A NUMBER. -
That just sounds like so much work. -
Yeah, that's what the video is. You plonk a helmet on the catapult cart thing and try to get that up above. It took a good few attempts.hylian_elf wrote:I think you need to take a detour to get a helmet to make a guard come alive so you can go behind him to get a barrel. Or something. -
I would get on board with the borked barrel eating being a genuine feature if there were animations coded in to support that idea. But there aren't. If you think it is, you're apologising for poor programming.
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And back to square 1.
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When he gets hit in the face by a barrel he recoils and whimpers. When he misses a catch with his mouth he whimpers and his eyes follow the barrel as it lands. Both those behaviours had to be designed.
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I can't believe how much of a big thing people are making out of this barrel business. Just position yourself better. It's not as if you're ever against the clock or anything. The game has far worse issues that Trico not eating a barrel FFS. -
I got the trophy for chucking loads of barrels into its gob yesterday BTW. The narration kicks in and says something about how after loads of practice you seem to have come to an understanding. That makes the difficulties with it seem all the more intentional IMO.
(But then I would say that, wouldn't I?
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One of my favourite moments came from chucking a barrel to him from height, where he managed to catch it and chomp it straight down. Just the expression on his face, it was so good. It was watching someone annihilatie the best dessert of their life, his eyes rolled to the back of his head and he looked skyward with a slight shake of his head, letting out a quiet, comforted noise of approval, it was so well observed and lifelike. -
I had a dream last night in which I owned a cat-sized Trico that was cuddling up in bed with me. GOTG.
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Surprised no one's done a plushy yet"I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B -
That does explain why no-one's done a plushy
How can it be hideous and so cute at the same time?"I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B -
monkey wrote:Both those behaviours had to be designed.
I can't remember seeing those. Like Paul, I had Trico standing there not registering at all.
stonechalice wrote:Just position yourself better.
Like Paul, I'm getting really fed up of variations on 'you played it wrong'. Either Trico is broken, or there's a single pixel's difference in where you have to stand to make it work, and where it won't work, with no visual clues as to which is right. Neither of those are the fault of the player. -
I don't get what's so wrong with 'you're playing it wrong' variants (although I wouldn't use that language exactly)?
Very clearly many people have absolutely adored it, and then there's some that really didn't.
Something had to account for that.Gamgertag: JRPC
PSN: Lastability95 -
there are plenty of visual cues for throwing a barrel in his mouth. align yourself correctly and get Trico's attention. he will stare at the barrel in your hands and his eyes will change, he might even make that hungry sound. if you take too long he tends to try and snatch it from your grip.
if he doesn't fix his gaze on you then more than likely a combination of positioning or something else has grabbed his attention.
sometimes you can be too close to him for it to be caught properly, and sometimes he will miss. -
Must have been fucked there then. That shouldn't happen.Andy wrote:
I can't remember seeing those. Like Paul, I had Trico standing there not registering at all.Both those behaviours had to be designed.
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The visual cues aren't completely reliable, but then again I think that's the point. It's a game that tries to turn the usual mechanical relationships of a videogame into something more organic, and the more you try to reintroduce those binary success/fail conditions, the more it loses its uniqueness. You can get better at things through a combination of following cues and just playing about and testing things though - it's not simply random.
You may not think it really succeeds in what it tries to do, or that it's interesting in the first place, but I'm pretty much convinced that is what it's about.
A lot of the suggestions I've seen to 'fix' problems would make it far less fun, and a more sterile experience for me. I really wouldn't want to play Andy's version of the game, for example. -
Thing is neither does Andy"I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
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Smang wrote:there are plenty of visual cues for throwing a barrel in his mouth.
Yup. And yet despite them being present, there are times it simply doesn't work. I love the way some of you feel the need to explain the building relationship with Trico as though those of us who had problems don't understand the game. The fact of the matter is that there are some learning behaviours in there, and there's some plain old broken code. I know the difference between an intentional mistake designed to mimic a developing relationship and a buggy mess.
JRPC wrote:Something had to account for that.
Something does account for that: unreliable code. It's clearly, inarguably broken, so to have someone tell me that's my fault and that I'm an idiot is pretty offensive. -
JonB wrote:The visual cues aren't completely reliable, but then again I think that's the point. It's a game that tries to turn the usual mechanical relationships of a videogame into something more organic, and the more you try to reintroduce those binary success/fail conditions, the more it loses its uniqueness. You can get better at things through a combination of following cues and just playing about and testing things though - it's not simply random.
You may not think it really succeeds in what it tries to do, or that it's interesting in the first place, but I'm pretty much convinced that is what it's about.
A lot of the suggestions I've seen to 'fix' problems would make it far less fun, and a more sterile experience for me. I really wouldn't want to play Andy's version of the game, for example.
OK we can end the thread right there.
I've been failing badly at saying exactly that for ages.
Totally nailed it.
Gamgertag: JRPC
PSN: Lastability95 -
Andy wrote:I love the way some of you feel the need to explain the building relationship with Trico as though those of us who had problems don't understand the game. The fact of the matter is that there are some learning behaviours in there, and there's some plain old broken code.
well it's the same as you talking about buggy code, when it seems at least half the people here have had a good time. apples and oranges etc -
As a dev, I would have to say that if it's buggy code, then please reliably replicate the issues, detailing steps taken to replicate, what your expected result is and what the actual result was. That way a developer can help to fix those bugs
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html"I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B -
Just finished it a second time. In some ways it's better knowing more clearly from the start how things work, in some ways you can't beat the sense of discovery of the first run.
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JRPC wrote:JonB wrote:The visual cues aren't completely reliable, but then again I think that's the point. It's a game that tries to turn the usual mechanical relationships of a videogame into something more organic, and the more you try to reintroduce those binary success/fail conditions, the more it loses its uniqueness. You can get better at things through a combination of following cues and just playing about and testing things though - it's not simply random.
You may not think it really succeeds in what it tries to do, or that it's interesting in the first place, but I'm pretty much convinced that is what it's about.
A lot of the suggestions I've seen to 'fix' problems would make it far less fun, and a more sterile experience for me. I really wouldn't want to play Andy's version of the game, for example.
OK we can end the thread right there.
I've been failing badly at saying exactly that for ages.
Totally nailed it.
I didn't introduce those binary success/fail states, the developers did, along with the arbitrary parameters placed on Trico and the boy for the conditions of those states to be met. So Trico will catch the barrel if the distance between him and the boy is greater than X but less than Y. As a player, you're tasked with mapping out those boundaries by trial and error barrel chucks until you find the sweet spot.
That seems to be the complete opposite of what you want and are arguing for from an organic relationship, and seems like very strict videogame binary bullshit to me, which ruins the interaction for me. Are the conditions met for Trico to catch the barrel Y/N?
Far more organic and natural an interaction would be for Trico catch it if the conditions are met, but also for him to eat the barrel wherever it lands, so long as it's within his reach. Throw it right over his head for all I care, let him trot after it. I mean, why wouldn't he? He's a hungry animal, not a robot, why wouldn't he just pick it up from wherever it lands and scoff it? It asks the same Y/N question, but the conditions are now far more open that it's not something you'll notice happening, and I fail to see how that's not a better interaction than bonking him on the nose and having him sit there until he presumably starves to death.
I suppose you could argue that he's a fussy eater who needs everything to be just to his liking and all that nonsense, I'd not be surprised, but it all seems like so much projecting onto Trico to cover the cracks. -
The binary success/fail thing was in reference to clear visual cues - i.e. not having some sign that tells you when you're in the right position before throwing.Paul the sparky wrote:I didn't introduce those binary success/fail states, the developers did, along with the arbitrary parameters placed on Trico and the boy for the conditions of those states to be met. So Trico will catch the barrel if the distance between him and the boy is greater than X but less than Y. As a player, you're tasked with mapping out those boundaries by trial and error barrel chucks until you find the sweet spot.
That seems to be the complete opposite of what you want and are arguing for from an organic relationship, and seems like very strict videogame binary bullshit to me, which ruins the interaction for me. Are the conditions met for Trico to catch the barrel Y/N?
But when it comes down to it, yes, you are tasked with using trial and error to map out parameters. That's precisely how they create the illusion of learning how to interact with Trico. In the end, there's just a load of maths under the bonnet determining the result, so it can't be anything other than meeting the conditions or not, and the only question is whether it maintains the illusion or not. The distance parameter was (for me) one of the ways it did that.
In what you describe, you may have a more realistic creature, but you sacrifice the interaction involved in developing the relationship between it and the boy. I think that interaction was a major part of the game, so I wouldn't want to lose it. -
I dint chuck every barrel at him, but when I did he ate it, caught or not. I can't explain why my experience is so different to some others.
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Nobody wants a sign over the boy's head saying press square now, fuck that noise.
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Diluted Dante wrote:I dint chuck every barrel at him, but when I did he ate it, caught or not. I can't explain why my experience is so different to some others.
I think some people are playing it wrong. Probably deliberately, the cunts.
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