God - The Bear and Badger

JRPC

Been doing some Youtubing and come across The Atheist Experience.

Been semi-aware of it for a while and maybe even seen a few clips, but not really watched anything proper until last night.

Hateful, nasty little show. Smug pseudo-intellectual bullies targeting the lowest possible hanging fruit who will shout down, mute and even cut off callers who dare to put up a fight.

Really the worst possible expression of atheist elitism.

Lord_Griff

Calm down God Squad. You most probably didn't understand it.

I can direct you to some introductory material that may make you think a little?

JRPC

Just watched another.

It's truly awful - just a bunch of smug twats wanking each other off.

You can even hear the crew chuckling at the contempt and rudeness that the hosts show towards their guests - even when they miss the mark and what they're saying doesn't really stand up.

I can't stop watching now, mind.

edit @Griff: Oh yes please Griff, that would be wonderful thanks so much! Just nothing too taxing, yeah?

Lord_Griff

Facewon

Heh, It's an institution.

It is all about Matt Dilahunty though. Comboed with Jen Peoples. Outside of that, it's pretty poor to listen to. Russell Glasser etc being particularly bad, IMO.

Matt is, granted, the king of the cut off, but that's partitially a result of them having been through all the arguments so many times.

Low hanging fruit is a fair comment, although, tbf, Matt does buckets of formal debates.

Only really check in every year or so these days, and only if it's Matt Jen combo.

[Deleted User]

JRPC wrote:

Been doing some Youtubing and come across The Atheist Experience. Been semi-aware of it for a while and maybe even seen a few clips, but not really watched anything proper until last night. Hateful, nasty little show. Smug pseudo-intellectual bullies targeting the lowest possible hanging fruit who will shout down, mute and even cut off callers who dare to put up a fight. Really the worst possible expression of atheist elitism.

What the fuck is athiest elitism? Looking down on people who are wrong? I suppose it's easy to be smug when you're right, but what it doesn't address is why religion is such a powerful belief despite it's ridiculousness. It's clearly not just poverty. I mean, people believe Trump. Doesn't matter what he says or does or that he's a cunt, they just believe in him. At least he exists I suppose, which is a bit of a shame but what can you do? Think I'd rather have that God fucker tbh but it looks like we're stuck with him because Americans are mental.

Vela

Elitism is probably the accusation that is used when an atheist criticises the person who believes something rather than the logic of the thing itself.

Ie "I can't believe that idiot believes Jesus walked on water" versus "Jesus couldn't have walked on water because it is not physically possible and also the account was written in Hebrew traditions where a godly person was supposed to have power over elements, thus it should be interpreted as allegorical account instead".

People are sensitive if you criticise them instead of the idea.

Vela

But yeah everyone who voted trump is a certified dingbat.

acemuzzy

SG answering his own question

Facewon

SpaceGazelle wrote:

JRPC wrote:

Been doing some Youtubing and come across The Atheist Experience. Been semi-aware of it for a while and maybe even seen a few clips, but not really watched anything proper until last night. Hateful, nasty little show. Smug pseudo-intellectual bullies targeting the lowest possible hanging fruit who will shout down, mute and even cut off callers who dare to put up a fight. Really the worst possible expression of atheist elitism.

What the fuck is athiest elitism? Looking down on people who are wrong? I suppose it's easy to be smug when you're right, but what it doesn't address is why religion is such a powerful belief despite it's ridiculousness. It's clearly not just poverty. I mean, people believe Trump. Doesn't matter what he says or does or that he's a cunt, they just believe in him. At least he exists I suppose, which is a bit of a shame but what can you do? Think I'd rather have that God fucker tbh but it looks like we're stuck with him because Americans are mental.

Pragmatically, there's an issue around being dismissive of religious arguments about any number of things because of the big one (does God exist).

Generally, if we're talking existence of God arguments the simple low hanging fruit folks who call into the AE are easy to dismiss; the problem, for theists who are a bit sharper, is that the more "sophisticated theology" (tm, as Jerry coyne would say) might have a thesaurus to hand, but is basically just bad philosophy, imo etc, so when you get through the jargon, you're left with the same bunch of bad arguments.

On all other issues, going straight to "God doesn't exist" isn't really that helpful. Unpacking the moral arguments requires more charity than SG gives. IMO. Again.

[Deleted User]

Facewon wrote:

On all other issues, going straight to "God doesn't exist" isn't really that helpful. Unpacking the moral arguments requires more charity than SG gives. IMO. Again.

Again, moral arguments and religious ones are not ever going to be the same thing. What is the most helpful thing ever is to assume God does not exist. Religious arguments are inherently bad. All of them, without exception. Why? Because religious arguments involve, always, a human moral superiority, and if there's one thing we should have surely learn't is humans are a bit shit. What religion fails to understand is humans are a bit shit, which is a shame, because if religion could understand that we might be less inclined to be utter twats. Trump exists because of Christianity. That's an unfortunate but true fact. And it's not my fault.

[Deleted User]

God dosen't exist. That is probably the most helpful fact that has ever existed btw. Not that anyone cares.

[Deleted User]

I mean really. Imagine you think that humans are the most important thing that has ever lived. And what they think matters in some grand universal scheme. HA and double HA. Imagine humans thinking humans have some grand idea that they take seriously but given the size of the Universe is not only laughable but actually fucking offensive,

[Deleted User]

God has just told me I'm really important. It came in a dream and I love everyone who's a Christian. God told me I was the most important thing in the Universe and I won so fuck you. And he just told me child abuse wasn't his fault because he was away on holiday.

[Deleted User]

Italy. He said the food was good. And he swears he never fucked any children. What a trooper.

g.man

All that proves is that God has a great sense of humour.

[Deleted User]

Great or sick? Dead children, polio, smallpot, aids. Oh what a joker.

[Deleted User]

Anne Frank. Which God? Oh yeah that one.

Skerret

Small pots are pretty useful tbh thx big g

JRPC

Anne Frank?

g.man

Cockney rhyming slang.

Facewon

Just free association.

acemuzzy

SpaceGazelle wrote:

God told me I was the most important thing in the Universe and I won so fuck you.

c.f.

SpaceGazelle wrote:

Science told me I was the least important thing in the Universe and I won so fuck you.

The arrogance comes across in how you present your case, as well as what it is. Blasé dismissals of thousands of years of human thought is not going to win many converts, however right you are. You need to understand who you're talking to and why they're thinking what they're thinking to have a chance of making a difference.

I don't believe in god, but there are loads of interesting questions in this space that you're ranting skirts past in a slightly frustrating way. And then last time you chatted about simulations in a way that undermined all you'd written before.

You should also separate church from religion btw. And Christianity does talk quite a lot about the falability of man, fwiw. I think you're inability to engage with the other side of the debate (through assumption you're right - even if accurate) is unhelpful.

Not that you'll care, I suspect.

Facewon

Yep.

mistercrayon

If my mates were eating diseased meats and they wouldn't listen to me because I'm just some guy but then they stopped eating diseased meats because I invoked some invisible judge, I'd consider that a net win.

Similarly if I needed some higher authority to convince a bunch of dumbass dickheads to stop robbing and murdering each other then again I would consider that a net win.

I think to say that creating god is entirely bad is hyperbolic and ridiculous.

bad_hair_day

And yet because of Adam we are broken but all sins are forgiven by just accepting Jesus as your saviour. So it doesn't stop crime, as prisons will attest.

cockbeard

Eve, no?

bad_hair_day

Didn't Adam* bite first? Laughable I'm having to qualify this in 2017

Edit: *Sins of the Father etc

cockbeard

I often wonder who's more silly, those that interpret a book as literal in order to praise and follow it or those that do the same in order to bash it

religion != faith

God is real even if only as a fiction created by man

mistercrayon

bad_hair_day wrote:

And yet because of Adam we are broken but all sins are forgiven by just accepting Jesus as your saviour. So it doesn't stop crime, as prisons will attest.

you're so smart!!!!!!!!!!!!

How did I forget that there is still crim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doh. I am well and truly touchéd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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