nick_md wrote:

Hah, Farage has a PragerU video.

GooberTheHat wrote:

I dont know what one of those is.

A farage is one of those shitstains that get stuck in your toilet bowl and which won't wash away no matter how hard you piss on it.

I’ve heard milkshake is pretty good too.

RedDave2 wrote:

They are also reporting that barnier is saying mays deal is the only deal around.

Makes sense. The EU spent ages (and a lot of money) negotiating that. Why should they be arsed with redoing it? 

Whoever becomes the next PM is going to make a load of promises here in the UK about renegotiating, spend ages faffing around with Parliament, and then visit Brussels where they will be told that the deal is exactly as it stands and they can take it or leave it.

The stupid part is that the new PM will know that, but will do all the pissing around at home anyway as a sort of public performance. It’s ridiculous.

Yossarian wrote:

RedDave2 wrote:

Corbin kinda ruling out remain being on a Labour backed 2nd ref. Its on the guardian based on comments he made in Dublin.

Just read the article, I didn’t see anything to that effect. Do you have a quote?

 

I cant find the article so possibly it misquoted (or I read it wrong) 

But here is a quote from Labours own page

Since the 2016 referendum, Labour has backed an alternative plan for Brexit that would work for the whole country, protecting jobs and living standards. Brexit has not happened because of the sheer incompetence and infighting of the Conservative Party.

“Labour will work with anyone across party boundaries and do whatever is necessary to stop a disastrous No Deal outcome, which would open the way for a frenzy of deregulation and a race to the bottom in jobs, rights and protections.

“But faced with the threat of No Deal and a Prime Minister with no mandate, the only way out of the Brexit crisis ripping our country apart is now to go back to the people. Let the people decide the country’s future, either in a general election or through a public vote on any deal agreed by parliament.

Note that there is nothing about remain there. It's all about how Brexit has been badly handled - not that it shouldn't happen.

Now if I can remember right the Guardian implied that Corbyn has said a 2nd referendum would be to find a way forward for Brexit but not to rerun the election - which reading between the lines doesn't support remain being part of that vote.

Seems to me to be deliberately vague as to not instantly lose remainers.

Fucking bored of it all now, we will crash out and all these cunts will still be talking up their own unique unicorn deals.
We will just change from "pick my deal" to "should have picked my deal".

LivDiv wrote:

Seems to me to be deliberately vague as to not instantly lose remainers. Fucking bored of it all now, we will crash out and all these cunts will still be talking up their own unique unicorn deals. We will just change from "pick my deal" to "should have picked my deal".

 

It is vague, too vague at this point. Its no good saying you wont do no deal but you will look at some imaginary new negotiation. Its (maybe unintentionally) running down the clock. Default for October is drop out. Parliament can rage all they like about not wanting to do that but are they prepared to do one of only 2 options left to them - Remain or take Mays Deal. 

And please don't say delay is an option. There would have to be signs that the UK would be willing to do either of the 2 options above for that. Saying delay to allow renegotiation isn't something Europe are willing to entertain.

May’s deal vs anything wouldn’t be a rerun of the referendum which was in/out. This doesn’t rule out Remain being on the paper any more than it rules out no deal being there.

Yossarian wrote:

May’s deal vs anything wouldn’t be a rerun of the referendum which was in/out. This doesn’t rule out Remain being on the paper any more than it rules out no deal being there.

That's true. But he is very careful to tiptoe around the word remain. He is talking about alternatives but as monkey says, that's not an option. There's still only 3 options to have - and if parliament is so against no deal than its only 2. For corbyn to imply that another option is there without any serious concrete detail is stupid and reckless.

Edit: not saying the tories are any better. I'd rather Labour was in charge but this bullshit is helping no one.

Yup.

TBF, he has been: a full, permanent customs union.

LivDiv wrote:

LarryDavid wrote:

Bring back some New Labour empty suit. The third way is still the best way. I can’t recall any Labour leader failing to give us anything but 100% truth.

If they were leader of the opposition, doing these things I would criticise them for it.
They aren't, Corbyn is.

The ambiguity isn't doing him any favours. It isn't getting him closer to being PM.
If you want Corbyn as PM you should be critical of this vague stance.

I can be critical, I don’t particularly think his stance helps. But then neither does endlessly whining about Corbyn as if he were the one to dump us in this mess.

If half the energy spent slagging Corbyn had gone into the remain campaign or championing Labour in the election... (media I mean, not people on here.)

Expecting left wing media to champion Corbyn is misplaced. One of the features of left wing media is that it does tend to be critical and strive for something approaching balance. Right wing media champions politicians, not left.

And a hell of a lot of energy has gone into covering the remain campaign, at least as much as has been spent ‘slagging’ Corbyn.

I know what you mean Larry, because it is tiring that others get away with murder while Corbs didnt iron his shirt well so is the devil.
Media though innit.


As for ref options.
Unfortunately I think no deal is the most likely to appear on a ballot. We had a ref and chose leave, so a vote realistically should be on what type of leave. Remain only really has a case because of the highly dubious platform the referendum was campaigned on.

Perhaps an option would be to put the Customs Union to a referendum. May's deal vs May's deal plus CU minus backstop.
Brand it as a "deal referendum" rather than a second referendum to avoid the same old line of "What happenz wen der refeindumb is another referendun 4eva?"

Labour have been doing this, but the EU haven’t responded, which isn’t surprising seeing as that would undermine the negotiations with the Tories.

The problem with Labour’s position isn’t that, it’s the fact that what they want is unachievable without a GE and a GE isn’t on offer. They need a position on what’s in front of them, not what they’d like in an ideal world.

There are a number of options which I’m sure that the EU would be open to: customs union, EEA membership, single market membership. I mean, the EU produced this, what, 2 years ago?