And some people lap it up. That’s the frustrating part.

I thought we weren’t supposed to listen to ‘experts’ nowadays, anyway? Make your mind up, The Sun.

HawBawJaws wrote:

Well the last few days of this thread have been fucking grim.

Just to check - I'll wager most folk in here aren't planning on voting tory? I'll also venture that most of us in here agree that the immediate threat right now is the tories, and their pursuit of brexit? And, if they win, they'll take it as a blank cheque to do whatever the fuck they want, to whoever the fuck they want, whenever and however the fuck they want? We all agree on that, aye?

If so, can we please wrap all this incessant sniping at each other, if we largely agree on the above? Aye, aye, climate change etc, something needs to be done, I'm hip to that. But, as someone else said, there's a seperate thread for that. And let's be honest, if the tories win, does anyone think for a minute they'll do anything to make positive change there? Will they fuck.

Come on lads. This is meant to be a discussion forum, not a bunch of guys being keyboard warriors towards each other, take it to pms. That's not directed at any specific people either, I like and respect all of you. But as gav said, we're better than this.

QFT

Muzzy never got the recognition he deserved for that joke because everyone was fighting. Feels bad man.

I saw it though Muzz, I got a good lol out of it, thankyou.

Politics is not just voting. I think that's one of the major ideological hurdles that needs to be overcome. I know people are busy, but any extra efforts to circulate ideas, organise, protest etc. add up.

This is a huge part of why labour unions were so fucking important, because they basically provided people an opportunity to be political agents while 'at work', and it provided it relatively easily/obviously.

Theory: people would make more of an effort politically if they knew what to fucking do in 2019 as a matter of practical steps, socially attractive ones. And that messaging could actually cut through the mountain ranges of entertainment and recreation that are also flung at a populace every millisecond.
Trade union energy is probably still the answer.

I know I’m preaching to the converted, but....

Edit: ignore me, link didn’t work - sorry.

Margaret Thatcher, milk snatcher.
Boris Johnson, phone snatcher.

We saw that vid of Jeremy Clarkson weighing in? He is the ok boomer final boss.

He did eventually look at the photo.

I'm not sure what I read out of his response.

The tools that are being used to spread disinformation are the same ones that would enable some sort of movement.

Anger is an energy.

It's being misused.

davyK wrote:

The tools that are being used to spread disinformation are the same ones that would enable some sort of movement.

What’s your suggestion, when you say that? Lobby the press to change their agenda, or build an alternative press from the ground up?

LivDiv wrote:

afgavinstan wrote:

https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1203718882420150272?s=19

I hate cunts like him.
All the money and influence to run himself but will he fuck. Sit on the sidelines and criticise everyone else.

ah but he’s funny on the car show so

hunk wrote:

poprock wrote:

The tools that are being used to spread disinformation are the same ones that would enable some sort of movement.

What’s your suggestion, when you say that? Lobby the press to change their agenda, or build an alternative press from the ground up?

I think Davy meant social media. Perfect grassroots/disinformation/propaganda tool.

Yep.

I know it got a bit hairy, but I'm fascinated by what constitutes an "acceptable limit" of personal responsibility when it comes to changing the world for the better, which is the question I derived from the initial exchanges between SG and Paul.

JonB talks about collective action, Brooks mentions unions; related. But getting involved in those things requires that very individual action in the first place, right? Why aren't more of us doing that then?

I totally get the point that scaling up personal action is usually not possible, but in that case how do popular revolutions ever get started? Do they require always require charismatic "special people" leading them, some kind of flash point to get started?

I also still maintain that it feels like too easy of a get-out clause, "what's the point if big corps and Govs don't make everyone else do this". Businesses change when they are forced to, and surely we bear some responsibility for that, 'cos if we don't buy the products, they will suffer. Relying on legislative change seems doomed to failure, at least in terms of acting fast enough.

I'm not trying to say "it's all on you guys!" and I'm not in any way trying to put everything on to individual action. I'm just asking where, for individuals, the bar lies. For my money, right now, we've put it too low, and we're still failing to clear it.

Well yeah, it’s what we were talking about the other night here

Also I should replace all those “we”s with “I”s