The British Politics Thread - The Bear and Badger

LivDiv

The NHS failings/sell off are Tory kryptonite.

I would say to keep on about that boy but his mum has requested not to and if we have anything about us we can respect that.

The NHS in general though needs ramming down throats for the next 72 hours.

b0r1s

@LivDiv - Just watched that vid. That moment he actually looks at the poor kid on the reporters phone and he almost has a soul, you see he is obviously taken aback. Then he remembers he’s sold it, devil’s advocate style, and the get this done lines come back.

LivDiv

Yeah that's what I thought.
That sliver of humanity almost showed.

LivDiv

Why did Johnson not want to look at the phone?

Why did Hitler never visit a death camp?

LarryDavid

I think Boris has basically been told from birth and totally believes that fat, rightwing ruddy faced public school boys are some form of master race and that the English are somehow inherently superior. The English upper classes obviously, he neither knows nor cares about the rest of us. His loyalty would probably be more to a fellow rich person from abroad than a scummy lower class Brit. He obliviously assumes that we all somehow benefit from his class remaining vastly wealthy and take some bizarre pride in it - like good honest plebs when the Queen drives past, waving dutifully at someone who lives a life the rest of us can only dream of. But we don’t question it, because to question it would be somehow un-British, a mindset Boris is obviously keen to encourage.

He internalised this at an early age and has basically devoted his whole life to becoming the archetypal Bertie Wooster-esque upper class cad and bounder whose true mission and devotion is to the continued prosperity of his upper class brethren. He probably wouldn’t think of himself as a racist but he just couldn’t imagine that anyone would think there was a better example of humanity than himself and his friends.

Farage - I dunno, just the archetypal little Englander, the toad faced fascist who operates as the Tories useful idiot, largely enabled by New Labour’s perceived abandonment of parts of the industrial north and the midlands, places where the continuation of Thatcherism under the party they assumed was there to represent them bred resentment and hatred that bubbled under until it finally broke, sweeping us all away in a tidal wave of shit.

LivDiv

Totally agree on Johnson.

On Farage. Was it on here that someone posted a retrospective on him returning as billy big bollocks to his public school where he was previously hated as a pauper?

Basically he was a wannabe Johnson.

LarryDavid

I can totally imagine him making a bitter Alan Partridge like return to his old school just to show everyone what car he drives and how expensive his suit is.

He’s clearly swam in much murkier waters than Boris but he’s largely distanced himself from all that now. Portraying himself as simply a concerned citizen, albeit one who happens to run political parties that always end up crammed with racists.

LivDiv

Going full circle.
I think that is why the C4 news bit today was so important. It was people in his party stating this stuff.
Tice was in some of the candid footage with these people. Farage is the face and the only face you will see of the Brexit party other than Tice and a few MEPs that can behave. And Widecombe for the old Tory vote

Funkstain

I thought it was quite striking how Farage managed this clean break with UKIP, which has been utterly tarred with the racist brush (countless councillors / operators / advisors / candidates saying awful things), and set up this Brexit Party which had been until now very tightly controlled: it was about immigration as a problem, sure, but nothing too controversial, no personal views, just "let's deliver Brexit". He must be so pissed off that lid has been blown off. He'll have to start another fresh non-racist party!

monkey

He'll be in the House of Lords in a couple of months. Set for life.

LarryDavid

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/10/woman-says-account-hacked-to-post-fake-story-about-hospital-boy

davyK

b0r1s wrote:

@LivDiv - Just watched that vid. That moment he actually looks at the poor kid on the reporters phone and he almost has a soul, you see he is obviously taken aback. Then he remembers he’s sold it, devil’s advocate style, and the get this done lines come back.

That was my thought too.

The taking the phone and pocketing thing is because he is run ragged. It's the sort of absent minded thing I'd do.

My main problem with Johnson is that I don't trust him. I can believe that picture affected him (I know there those who don't believe that) but I simply don't believe him when he makes a promise.

It may have affected him wrt to the election campaign. Or it may have affected him by making him think what sort of mess is this country in. I might even have made think of the poor kid.....but I genuinely don't know which.

Tempy

My main problem with Johnson is he’s a racist, sexist, homophobic cunt who is also a pathological liar and has no-ones interests at heart bar his own.

LarryDavid

They spent nine years running everything into the ground and spending the bare minimum. If you suddenly think they’re going to turn on the money tap and adequately fund things should they win this election then you’re incredibly naive (not you Davey, talking about the hypothetical voter who sees their targeted Facebook shite about how the Tories are going to flood the streets with money should they win).

Their campaign has been fucking appalling, nothing but smears and hatred and their tacky cliched catch phrases (Get Brexit Done, Get Brexit Done etc), whilst their army of paid bots pump out bullshit 24/7 and their made up campaign groups (can’t be traced back to CCHQ) attack the clueless on Facebook with invented claims, distortions and cynical lies that play on their prejudices and fears.

davyK

Tempy wrote:

My main problem with Johnson is he’s a racist, sexist, homophobic cunt who is also a pathological liar and has no-ones interests at heart bar his own.

Well....there's that too.

davyK

LarryDavid wrote:

They spent nine years running everything into the ground and spending the bare minimum. If you suddenly think they’re going to turn on the money tap and adequately fund things should they win election then you’re incredibly naive (not you Davey, talking about the hypothetical voter who sees their targeted Facebook shite about how the Tories are going to flood the streets with money should they win). Their campaign has been fucking appalling, nothing but smears and hatred and their tacky cliched catch phrases (Get Brexit Done, Get Brexit Done etc), whilst their army of paid bots pump out bullshit 24/7 and their made up campaign groups (can’t be traced back to CCHQ) attack the clueless on Facebook with invented claims, distortions and cynical lies that play on their prejudices and fears.

I am convinced that the NHS has one foot in the Grave as it is. And that it is by design. It is a manufactured crisis that certain people can say can only be sorted out by the private sector.

If there is anything that has been proven, it's that private sector cannot do equitable public services.

poprock

The response to that now-infamous photo of the sick kid on the floor (I’m not naming him, his parents have asked that he/they are left alone) is shining a little bit of light on the methods being used for misinformation right now.

Anyone can copy/paste the text they’ve seen in tweets or Facebook posts trying to debunk the photo as fake. Anybody can pop that text into a search box. Anybody can see how many multiple accounts are posting the exact same copy verbatim, about their supposed friend who is a nurse and knows it was faked. The same text tweeted by a senior BBC journalist. The same text tweeted by bots taking over compromised accounts.

Some people are starting to notice the emperor’s lack of clothes on this one.

Link and example:
https://twitter.com/TVRav/status/1204177672814956544
ELYZNSIWwAAmUY7?format=jpg&name=small

“Twitter have banned political advertising.” Not really they haven’t. And even if they had … this is where the parties spend their money now instead. A co-ordinated misinformation campaign can be had for a few thousand quid if you know where to buy from. Much cheaper than official adverts and much more effective.

AndCallMeCharlie

9 years of the country being ravaged by austerity and Brexit- how the fuck are they getting back in?

afgavinstan

At what point does a person's twitter page stop being a jotpad for half-baked ideas and ramblings and observations, and becomes a platform for someone that's held to the same editorial standard as broadcasters and newspapers?

Peston & that Laura should be shaken vigorously, but I'm just curious what others think.

poprock

I would say the point where your personal account holds a blue tick would be a good start. Obviously any professional account should have standards too.

The problem isn’t Twitter’s standards though. It’s the lack of critical thought from it’s readers/users. Some folk are too credulous, just like my Mother-in-law who believes every word printed in the Daily Express is gospel truth, even the bits clearly labelled as ‘opinion’.

Tempy

Ah but she’s got her bio as a disclaimer - views not her own Poppo! Don’t shoot the messenger, because that’s all she is!

monkey

afgavinstan wrote:

At what point does a person's twitter page stop being a jotpad for half-baked ideas and ramblings and observations, and becomes a platform for someone that's held to the same editorial standard as broadcasters and newspapers? Peston & that Laura should be shaken vigorously, but I'm just curious what others think.

Kuenssberg has done exactly the same thing on the News at 10. Passed on lies from 'Number 10 sources' that are intended to smear their opponents. Actual lies, without any evidence. And they were subsequently shown to be lies. She knows this is happening. She's still doing it. The only difference yesterday is that they were all caught out by the video disproving it. Otherwise the story would still be rumbling along. So now they've all shifted gear into the 'It was just a hot take' defence. And, even more disgracefully, the 'sick child's parents are lefties and set it all up' defence. She's either complicit or incompetent and it's not the second one.

She keeps just the right side of outright favouritism but all her Tory conclusions are soft, all her Labour ones harsh. As per yesterday morning where she said both leaders had 'brass necks.' Because Johnson lied (my words, she called it obfuscation) about the NI border, something that affects jobs, lives, the integrity of the UK. Whereas Jeremy Corbyn gave a completely unconvincing answer about watching the Queen on Christmas Day.

I always thought the Kuenssberg thing was overdone. That she was clearly a bit biased but in the soft, rich person, media bubble way that a lot of journos are. Her reporting since Johnson became PM has opened my eyes though. It can only be deliberate.

Diluted Dante

I remember when she first got the job, I was quite excited to see a woman in that role, started following her on Twitter. That didn't last long.

Armitage_Shankburn

monkey wrote:

At what point does a person's twitter page stop being a jotpad for half-baked ideas and ramblings and observations, and becomes a platform for someone that's held to the same editorial standard as broadcasters and newspapers? Peston & that Laura should be shaken vigorously, but I'm just curious what others think.

Kuenssberg has done exactly the same thing on the News at 10. Passed on lies from 'Number 10 sources' that are intended to smear their opponents. Actual lies, without any evidence. And they were subsequently shown to be lies. She knows this is happening. She's still doing it. The only difference yesterday is that they were all caught out by the video disproving it. Otherwise the story would still be rumbling along. So now they've all shifted gear into the 'It was just a hot take' defence. And, even more disgracefully, the 'sick child's parents are lefties and set it all up' defence. She's either complicit or incompetent and it's not the second one. She keeps just the right side of outright favouritism but all her Tory conclusions are soft, all her Labour ones harsh. As per yesterday morning where she said both leaders had 'brass necks.' Because Johnson lied (my words, she called it obfuscation) about the NI border, something that affects jobs, lives, the integrity of the UK. Whereas Jeremy Corbyn gave a completely unconvincing answer about watching the Queen on Christmas Day. I always thought the Kuenssberg thing was overdone. That she was clearly a bit biased but in the soft, rich person, media bubble way that a lot of journos are. Her reporting since Johnson became PM has opened my eyes though. It can only be deliberate.

It's not just a Tory thing, she was a mouthpiece for the anti Corbyn centre of the PLP when, despite the actual exit poll and in due course results she delivered the message in the 2016 local elections - worst local elections ever for labour (not true) and corbo must go.

She just thinks democrats, the folk, etc are losers. She's a winner and she hangs out with winners.

It's that simple, you're all losers and your criticisms don't matter.

afgavinstan

I get all that Monkey. I've followed her particular brand of shitty shtick for a while. I just meant in general.

monkey

afgavinstan wrote:

I get all that Monkey. I've followed her particular brand of shitty shtick for a while. I just meant in general.

Ah. Apologies if that was all a bit condescending then. I was coming at it from the angle of even comparing it to broadcasting standards isn't that helpful given how low they've sunk. Although it was probably always like this and has just become more transparent with the rise of other media.

afgavinstan

All good.

I mean I done what Dante did. Thought hmm, okay, progressive, more of this. Then oh.... Ah..... Wait..... What?.... The fuck?.... Like everyone else.

My main problem now is my rapidly falling faith in the BBC is entirely at odds with my using The Thick Of It as a coping mechanism for these times. Gosh darn it.

MattyJ

BBC journalism is dead to me

poprock

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

She just thinks democrats, the folk, etc are losers. She's a winner and she hangs out with winners. It's that simple, you're all losers and your criticisms don't matter.

Yeah, totally agree with you there. It’s the ‘I’m alright, Jack’ belief system. From Trump to Johnson to Kuenssberg is a pretty straight ideological line.

LivDiv

She's a smug cunt

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories