Brexit: Boris' Big Belgian Bangers
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If I were him I'd swallow my pride, keep my doubts private and (cautiously) back staying in (whilst trying to reform the areas of the EU which I disagreed with - whatever they may be in Corbyn's case). Merely because there's a (slim) chance Labour could somehow take power soon (as long as May stays and the Conservatives remain shambolic) - and taking charge of a fragile economy suddenly thrown into freefall makes a difficult task even harder, so staying would be better, I'm ignoring anything beyond the financial because it's all opinion beyond that.
I can see why he's playing it safe though, back either side and you alienate a sizeable proportion of voters. I can also see why it makes him appear like he's dithering. Basically, he's uncommitted to and unsure of the EU.
That's not a problem to me personally, as I said above neither staying nor leaving are massively exciting or inspiring to me. And we'll still be the same shitty country either way.
Like I said, I think the practical thing to do would be to stay. -
The latest.
https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/london-playbook/politico-london-playbook-presented-by-exxonmobil-supply-side-crisis-erg-onomics-spanish-foreign-minister-speaks/
Tl;dr: The DUP voted with Labour against the government last night effectively killing the confidence and supply arrangement ahead of the vote on May’s deal, Spain has formally demanded a veto over Gibraltar, but on the plus side for May, the ERG coup appears to be over, at least until the point that her deal fails to clear parliament.
It’s all going swimmingly. -
Labour somehow contrived to lose the vote despite the DUP’s support. Labour whips were completely blindsided by the DUP’s decision to vote with them on the amendment, which had called on the Treasury to produce impact assessments of the budget on inequality and child poverty. As a result Labour failed to muster enough MPs, and lost the knife-edge contest by five votes. Among the absentees was one Jeremy Corbyn, who had put forward the amendment himself
The damage could have been spectacular if the DUP had bothered to get the thing organised. -
It’s done the job for the DUP. It wasn’t that they wanted to defeat the bill, they just wanted to flex their muscles.
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I think that just about sums Corbyn/Labour up perfectlymonkey wrote:
"Like i said, context is missing."
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WorKid wrote:Labour somehow contrived to lose the vote despite the DUP’s support. Labour whips were completely blindsided by the DUP’s decision to vote with them on the amendment, which had called on the Treasury to produce impact assessments of the budget on inequality and child poverty. As a result Labour failed to muster enough MPs, and lost the knife-edge contest by five votes. Among the absentees was one Jeremy Corbyn, who had put forward the amendment himself
The damage could have been spectacular if the DUP had bothered to get the thing organised.
Seems I may have been wrong above, according to one of Peston’s sources, the DUP did want this to fail and did try to get it organised:
PS I am reliably told Labour whips had been told the DUP would be on their side in this crucial vote. so it is genuinely extraordinary they contrived to lose
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1064803701368459264 -
Corbyn is expecting the Tories to fuck Brexit up spectacularly so he can swoop in and take over when the time is right. He's deliberately staying neutral so as not to offend leave voters in his camp. He doesn't seem to oppose Brexit despite the referendum arguably having been rigged by the hard right.
Unless May recovers and manages to reunite the Tories to back up her plan and stand beside her. The hard core brexiteers have been manipulating matters behind the scenes all along. What makes Corbyn and Labour think they can wrestle back control from them? A supposed backlash from the public that might never come? A foolish strategy imo, especially in the age of social media where public opinion can be bought for a tuppence. A strategy hardcore brexiteers aren't afraid to use.
Point being, the hard core right brexiteers aren't playing by the old rules. Hope Labour is taking that into account when plotting their strategy.
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Glad he's staying neutral on child poverty. Great guy, lots of principles.
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hunk wrote:Corbyn is expecting the Tories to fuck Brexit up spectacularly so he can swoop in and take over when the time is right. He's deliberately staying neutral so as not to offend leave voters in his camp. He doesn't seem to oppose Brexit despite the referendum arguably having been rigged by the hard right.
Unless May recovers and manages to reunite the Tories to back up her plan and stand beside her. The hard core brexiteers have been manipulating matters behind the scenes all along. What makes Corbyn and Labour think they can wrestle back control from them? A supposed backlash from the public that might never come? A foolish strategy imo, especially in the age of social media where public opinion can be bought for a tuppence.
Even if the strategy does work, he just ends up holding the grenade when it goes off. -
It's a shit strategy.
The right wing brexiteers won't give up power that easily. They have their own agenda and they've invested too much time and effort to let Brexit slip through their fingers now. My guess is certain elements there are aiming for a no deal Brexit. It's a sure fire way to create a laissez faire economy with ample opportunity to 'seize the day'.
For the rest of the population it's just another long recession.Steam: Ruffnekk
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So wait Corbyn puts in an amendment, is told the DUP will support it, and then doesn't bother voting himself? You can't make this up.
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Some are saying that he was supposed to be paired with May who voted anyway, but others are saying he wasn’t, but it’s all rumours through off-the-record briefings at the moment.
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What I don't get about Mogg is the timing of his no confidence letter. Surely before you hand in something like that , you do so because you're confident you've organised a proper coup? And that the other 47 or so letters are in the bag. But that wasn't the case was it? It would appear they have fallen well short of the number required. If these hard line Brexiteers are all that, why haven't they mobilized their fellow right wing nut jobs to do the decent thing and put pen to paper? It's a very British coup. Doomed to failure before it even began.It wasn't until I hit my thirties that I realised you could unlock rewards by exploring the map
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It's because he's a fucking arrogant entitled idiot.Gamertag: gremill -
He thought he had more weight than he did.
Some are saying that there are publicly promised letters that weren't actually put in as well. -
Vote one will fail to get through the commons.
Then enough MPs will realise they are about to crash the country and will never be forgiven that they "reluctantly" pass it on vote two for "the good of the country", possibly after some sort of meaningless concessions appear to have been made.
The biggest danger right now is Spain being a dick. -
Diluted Dante wrote:He thought he had more weight than he did.
Pretty much.
Let’s put him in charge of the Brexit negotiation, what could possibly go wrong? -
Ian Dunt is not impressed by May’s deal.
May wanted to extricate the UK from EU rules, prevent a hard border on the island of Ireland, and maintain the territorial integrity of the whole of the UK. This wasn't possible and the experiment to pretend otherwise has resulted in a Frankenstein's monster, a broken, grotesque invention, stumbling around, half-alive, tormented by anger against its creator.
Moar: http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/23/may-s-brexit-deal-is-a-humiliation-for-britain -
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Send messageThe no deal crowd."Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1." -
I just don't see the point in any deal really.
A deal involving the single market, we may as well remain.
Any other deal undermines our ability to negotiate new trade deals as we won't get a say in our laws and customs.
We should remain or negotiate a cushy and lengthy transition period along with a decent trade deal. This halfway house is of benefit to neither side and I suspect will be damaging to EU relations in the long run. -
At this point I'm fairly confident future ability to negotiate deals will be hampered more by the shocking lameness of the administration more than anything in law. If the wider world has been watching this fucking shitshow, they can't be terribly thrilled at the prospect. -
Oh for sure. It's like a feature length episode of The Apprentice.
I can't wait for the looks on brexiteer faces when we are dishing out visas to the Middle East.
That and the irony that they have voted to give up control not take it back. -
This deal’s of benefit to the EU who will have us over a barrel with the trade deal just as they have all through the process. They have no incentive to change it or let us have another stab at it. They hold all the cards, they always have, this is what they’re willing to offer.
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Yossarian wrote:Ian Dunt is not impressed by May’s deal.
May wanted to extricate the UK from EU rules, prevent a hard border on the island of Ireland, and maintain the territorial integrity of the whole of the UK. This wasn't possible and the experiment to pretend otherwise has resulted in a Frankenstein's monster, a broken, grotesque invention, stumbling around, half-alive, tormented by anger against its creator.
Moar: http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/23/may-s-brexit-deal-is-a-humiliation-for-britain
So overall, more positive than I thought it would be. -
It's always been this choice. It was clear beforehand. It's either Remain, soft Brexit (this deal) which is a worse situation for everyone, or hard brexit which is chaos.
May's agreement isn't the end of the world for Remainers. We'll either be in permanent transition or in the backstop. There is no trade deal possible that will be better for the EU than either of those two situations. So why would they go for it? We'll be stuck there and the only outcome that would improve it is to rejoin. Which we'll then do under worse terms, with no opt-outs or rebates.
The end point, a few months from now or one or two or three decades in the future, is us being members of the EU. There won't be a single day where EU law ceases to apply. It just depends how soon this country gets that through its thick skull. -
I went to the first page of the thread by accident and decided to browse through some of the old chat. There's definitely less racism around this whole issue now than there was a couple of years ago. Now it's all technocratic detail and trade deal codswallop. I think May should probably get some credit for that. If it was PM Johnson, he'd certainly be stirring that pot instead of dealing with the specifics and complexities.
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