Question for Remainers:

If you got your second referendum how do you see the social landscape six months before after the vote?

The questions I can’t shake are that the remain arguments will be as ineffectual as they were last time but asked in a context of “betrayal” and people like Farage talking about being heroes against the “elites”.

Does the collective batch of remain folk look like they could consolidate around anything good (the tigs fights the greens fight the libdems while ostensibly campaigning on the same ticket - what do they care about?!)

Can you feel any realistic situation in which remain wins the fertiliser that led to leave winning once before would be repaired? I can’t see it being anything but more toxic.

I feel like anyone who wants to go balls out for remain also really needs to back that up with some post referendum idea about Britain too (because the leaver campaigners don’t give a fuck but they can say what they want because they will foster and recycle hate as it keeps their bullshit in power).

Devil's advocate from a complete outsider here Liv:
If Corbyn's walkout empowered the others, what exactly did they do with this power? Or did May carry on as planned with a farcical meeting?

I’m not sure that newspaper headlines are the best place to look for evidence that remain understand the reasons behind the vote, they aren’t really the best place for expressing complex, nuanced ideas, even if these ideas were to make headlines in the first place.

In the US, Bernie and AOC aren't doing too bad a job. Corbyn could learn a lot from them.

AOC isn't a leader. Bernie is not the nominee. The democratic party is doing everything it can to use AOC while placating her. It is doing everything it can to keep Bernie from being the nominee, and God help him if he doesn't obliterate the field on the first round, because in the second round super delegates will come back and vote for anyone but him

Comparing Bernie and Corbo is unfair. Bernie is smarter and more agile. He is also Jewish, which while not a panacea does give him some cover to criticise finance etc without being accused of using anti-Semitic tropes. And to criticise Israel.

I wish we had Bernie here. But we only have what we have.

Ps- James OB on the stump today Vs Corbo, just got an amazing Jewish caller who has basically killed off the entire show by pointing out that the real anti Semites are on the right, like Orban, who are netenyahu's mates. Corbo is not an antisemite but the fact that he can endorse a classic like Hobson's book on imperialism without distancing himself from the anti-Semitic tropes it repeats (prevalent at the times, and sadly still today) is very troubling. I agree. Corbo is basically a highly principled, driven campaigner who lacks nuance or smarts. I mean, he is actually a little bit dim.

They will block him, but he is playing a blinder. He is not speaking out Vs Venezuela. He is not speaking out Vs assange. He is giving them.nothing. they want to invoke the rule that he is no true democrat.... That will be difficult.

They then are left with the super delegates. If he wins in the first round, that won't help.

But there are a lot of candidates, and deliberately so. I think if Warren wins, he will back her. Anyone know else, he'll run na independent campaign, supported by the greens. He will steal votes of Trump, but many off the democratic nominee.

Yossarian wrote:

Sanders has already pledged to back the eventual Dem nominee no matter who it is:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-first-to-sign-pledge-to-rally-behind-whoever-wins-democratic-primary

I know

My read is that this is part of his strategy to outmanoeuvre the establishment Dems plotting to oust him on the basis that he isn't a real democrat if he looks like winning the nomination fyi

Former Conservative Chairman, and thumb come to life, Eric Pickles has come out in favour of a second referendum to break the Parliamentary deadlock.

If you want to use your vote to express your feelings about Brexit, don’t vote Labour. How many times since the last GE have you heard politicians trotting out the line about 80% of people voting for pro-Brexit parties?

Surely all Labour MEPs are pro-Remain?

I was thinking along the lines of what yoss said "Labour are a pro brexit party" narrative. There isn't much in the way of nuanced discussion around this, so even though at least 2 of my 6 Labour candidates are pro remain, will that carry across in the national debate. Or will Labour take that as an indication that their current position is supported?

GooberTheHat wrote:

I've just received my EU elections postal vote card. Am I right in thinking that, in the grand scheme of things, this election is fairly irrelevant? That it will be mostly used by politicians as a public indicitve vote on who's approach to brexit has the most support? If that's true, am I better off voting LD to boost their numbers, or should I stick with Labour (I've got Clare Moody and Andrew Adonis who are poth pro remain AFAIK) because the D’Hondt voting system will favour the big parties?

I believe this means your region is South West. I would vote Green for 2 reasons. You currently have a Green MEP in Molly Scott Cato. She is an incredible and hardworking MEP, and you should want her returned. Secondly, your region had the highest Green vote of any in the UK, ahead of the Lib Dems.

In regards to the first Labour one on the list, Clare Moody, she voted for the Copyright directive, and Molly Scott Cato voted against it. If you want a non Brexit reason for your vote, this might inform it.

RedDave2 wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

I was thinking along the lines of what yoss said "Labour are a pro brexit party" narrative. There isn't much in the way of nuanced discussion around this, so even though at least 2 of my 6 Labour candidates are pro remain, will that carry across in the national debate. Or will Labour take that as an indication that their current position is supported?

Maybe you should look into how each mep interacts in Europe? I know the UK hasn't really interacted that well with Europe but the national party lines dont necessarily transfer over. Gonzos response has the key info - what bloc will they become part of if elected.

But is that of any importance right now if they are going to leave in October?

For the case of Brexit elections, try not to think of remain and leave , try to think of it as either helpful or disruptive. A Brexit party mep will be disruptive and no help whereas a labour MEP, while still working towards a Brexit overall, may be able to foster good will in Europe to further UK relations. There are still 5 months before Brexit comes in effect again.

The problem is that if you view this vote in the case of a confidence motion for what's happening in the UK, it's somewhat missing the point. That doesn't mean you are wrong to do so but its voting in a way that is counter to the what the actual vote is for