Racist
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Where is the line? Have things gone too far? Not sure if it was in here that I saw about Koji asking frank Turner to change the name of his band 'Mongol Horde' (maybe he could have mentioned it years ago when they first started playing together), and now today I notice that 'Kamikaze Girls' have changed their name to Cultdream
I don't hail from either the Steppe or Japan, so perhaps my thoughts on this are invalid. Though I'm pretty sure that Koji doesn't hail from the Steppe either so his thoughts on medieval Mongolian history may also be invalid. Just this seems mental to me, if I saw a band called 'Die Paki Die' then yeah I can see that as 'problematic' but I don;t see the word Kamikaze used wothout context as an issue, and especially not something that needs to be apologised for"I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B -
Kamikaze means "divine wind" and originally was the name for a legendary gale that destroyed the Mongol horde.
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No one has asked me change of my band, fuckers
Spoiler:Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms -
*sniffs quizzically*
*Coughs, chokes, splutters*
Dude, change them, or at least get a few pairs on rotation"I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B -
Because Koji is irrelevant and wanted to get his name out there again"I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
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Diluted Dante wrote:Why is Mongol Horde racist?
Call me a nerd but when I heard the name I just thought that it was a space marine chapter.
Also when dante doesn't spot the racism, I tend to believe there might not be any.
SFV - reddave360 -
The use of the word ‘horde’ to describe a group of people could be seen as dehumanising, linking it to people from a specific country could be seen as racist.
Honestly, I’m not sure whether I agree with Koji or not, I’d have to look into this a bit more deeply, but I can see why an argument could be made. -
Horde means a group of people. How is that dehumanising?"Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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Collective nouns depersonalise the individuals who make up the group.
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Yossarian wrote:Collective nouns depersonalise the individuals who make up the group.
So we cant use team, group, gang etc? Are we not all badgers? Come on Yoss. Thats reaching. collective nouns aren't aimed at individuals, thats the point of them.
I also now realize I actually read the name of the band wrong. I thought the band was called mongrel horde and that the issue was that mongol and mongrel were being put beside each other. So where is the harm in the name mongol horde as a name of a band? I might, might, see sense if the mongol horde was being presented as an enemy in the MCU or something but in this case?
I feel a lot of the complaints are based on people could be offended but no-one actually isSFV - reddave360 -
Better learn everyone's name, age and gender and refer to them thus and never use the word horde, gang (they're not Mexican gang bangers) or group (might be confused with paedo musicians). Frankly, sometimes people are just going to have to live with the offence they managed to dig up somewhere and I'm not going to worry about it. -
Collective noun offence would mean the following terms get increasingly offensive:
Scouser, Englishman, Breton, European, Human."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob -
The Mongol Horde was the army of the Mongol Empire. I cant fathom how we get that using it is racist.
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Calling people a horde is a bit negative, but I doubt that any Mongolians would be offended. I did wonder if the guy complaining has a kneejerk thing about the word Mongol.
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Some collective nouns clearly carry more negative baggage than others. People are rarely described as a horde in a positive way.
Plus there does seem to be a suggestion here that nobody’s offended. Has anyone sought out a Mongolian perspective on this? -
It was me that linked it first a few weeks ago. Not that I agreed with it, more that I just despise Frank Turner and everything he stands for.
I don't think it's racist, ftr. But I'm a white guy from central Scotland so my opinion should rightly be ignored. -
Yossarian wrote:Has anyone sought out a Mongolian perspective on this?
Probably too pissed or full of yak to care."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob -
I had a Mongolian student once, he did a presentation on a Mongolian pop star including playing a video.
It involved modern pop production plus throat singing and regular singing and a video that showed the singer alongside a whole load of other blokes riding horses across a valley while holding bows and arrows.
It was quite a thing. -
"Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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Looking at that Koji guy's tweet he is saying the word "Mongol" is offensive, not horde.
Which means he is a fucking cretin.
Its like saying The Monkees should change their name because of abuse aimed at black people. -
Oh and "horde" comes from Turkish and refers to nomadic groups.
The negative connotations to the word come from the Mongol Hordes as they were a ruthless invading force. -
Ice cream inventing ruthless force."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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Whilst this is definitely a bit of a storm in a teacup, if you can't see how horde is more derogatory than team or group then you're a bit silly, no?
The Mongol group
vs
The Mongol horde
I imagine the word 'horde' was used way back to describe this group precisely because it makes them seem more animalistic.
Again, storm in a teacup, but referring to dictionary definitions alone ignores cultural weight / history of words. -
Not everyone drinks tea so that's offensive.
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