Racist - The Bear and Badger

Yossarian

RedDave2 wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

RedDave2 wrote:

I'm not knocking you or the above. But what if I as an Irish man found Notre Dame and their logo of the fighting Irish both Stereotypical in depiction of the Irish and cultural appropriation because they are an American institute?

Then you are perfectly within your rights to complain. It doesn’t look like you’d be the first to raise it. https://scholastic.nd.edu/issues/is-fighting-irish-offensive/

The issue I'd have isn't the right to complain, its to demand change. Surely it should be if enough people complain that you are justified in asking for change - otherwise its just opinion.

Also somewhat against my own point, I feel Notre Dame are somewhat more justified than the cleveland indians thing.

Sounds like it’s just an issue of tone?

I mean, a request to consider a change versus a demand to change ultimately amount to the same thing and one has no more weight than the other.

Tempy

Koji then responded: "Would you please consider changing the name? It's a very offensive song from a white fronted band is now a very offensive band name from yet another white fronted band." Turner responded again, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but it's not intended in that way, and it's not really possible to change it, having been a band for 7 years, referencing a song that came out 20 years."

Doesn't read like a demand to me.

RedDave2

https://www.punknews.org/article/69092/koji-accuses-frank-turners-mongol-horde-of-having-racist-implications

I must be honest, I've no real knowledge of either Frank Turner or Koji (or the Van Pelts for that matter)

But look at the emails and I dont think this is a simple "hey I asked". He asked in the emails Turner politely said no and explained why and then Koji went public. And request and demand are two different things. Dont pretend they are not.

@Tempy - I agree in the initial emails its not a demand, its the follow up tweet.

bad_hair_day

RedDave2 wrote:

...Also had me thinking of any Mongolians I worked with and I did through the Mongolion BBQ in Dublin (not owned by Mongolians I should add, its run by a very nice scotsman)...

So kinda between a jock and horde place?

Yossarian

RedDave2 wrote:

Request and demand are two different things. Dont pretend they are not.

They’re two different tones, certainly, but at the risk of returning this to a semantic argument, the two words are synonyms for each other. Run them through a thesaurus if you don’t believe me.

RamSteelwood

bad_hair_day wrote:

RedDave2 wrote:

...Also had me thinking of any Mongolians I worked with and I did through the Mongolion BBQ in Dublin (not owned by Mongolians I should add, its run by a very nice scotsman)...

So kinda between a jock and horde place?

Well played sir. Also, ban request for using jock, i find it very offensive on behalf of the kilt-wearing, haggis-munching, bagpipe-playing badgers.

Kow

I'm offended by Ram's use of an before historical. English bastard.

Yossarian

I’m offended by Kow’s insinuation that the English don’t know how to use indefinite articles correctly.

Kow

The English aren't allowed to be offended.

Yossarian

Fair.

hunk

Historically, the Mongol and Turkic hordes were kindof the vikings of central asia.
Except they used horses instead of ships.
They were the scourge of Chinese and Roman empires with a roaming plundering lifestyle.

RamSteelwood

i think you mean 'with a Roman and Chinese plundering lifestyle'

pantyfire

Thank you hunk, now, back to yossarian in the studio.

RamSteelwood

Kow wrote:

The English aren't allowed to be offended.

Could those wishing to be offended by this, please form an orderly queue.

RedDave2

bad_hair_day wrote:

RedDave2 wrote:

...Also had me thinking of any Mongolians I worked with and I did through the Mongolion BBQ in Dublin (not owned by Mongolians I should add, its run by a very nice scotsman)...

So kinda between a jock and horde place?

Nice.

Yossarian wrote:

RedDave2 wrote:

Request and demand are two different things. Dont pretend they are not.

They’re two different tones, certainly, but at the risk of returning this to a semantic argument, the two words are synonyms for each other. Run them through a thesaurus if you don’t believe me.

Oh come on. You cant be serious? They might share the same usage but they imply very different things.

You cant see a difference between "I requested a pay rise" and "I demanded a pay rise"?

But yes, it is semantics. Whatever the difference, I think Kojis tone isn't warranted. I dont think his demand is completely unreasonable to ask by the way. But dragging the issue onto twitter feels a bit much and claiming the band name is racial appropriation when he has an email from the other guy implying absolutely nothing of the sort. I think Koji is also a little guilty of claiming offence on behalf of people when there may be none.

hunk

Like the vikings they left their dna in the regions they plundered/conquered/settled.
Eurasia is quite a big area and yeah it stretches from old byzantium (east roman empire) all the way to china. They had sex with/impregnated any female human being they could get their grubby hands on which explains the wide range of exotic looks of the turkic/mongolian people populating the eurasian steps.

Fun fact: if you're a european of mostly white ancestry, there's a 5-10% chance your newborn might be born with a mongolian blue spot on the tush. Don't worry it's entirely benign; it indicates you most likely have asian ancestry somewhere in your lineage either because of the mongol horde or via a more obscure nordic route (inuit etc). Dna has a funny way of dispersing through human populations.

SpaceGazelle

regmcfly

Colourism is a real thing and with that specific story where the shade of their skin is a thing is important.

Also way to get a white British guy to report that. Fuck sake.

SpaceGazelle

Erm.

regmcfly

I mean he's a prick

regmcfly

Sorry, none of that aimed at you.

Paul the sparky

I thought you lot were on about Hideo Kojima for way too long there.

SpaceGazelle

regmcfly wrote:

I mean he's a prick

He's fictional btw. Also, the thought of Will Smith blacking up did make me do a lol.

regmcfly

AHH ok but also aye

Diluted Dante

Pie and Turner are both pricks, as is apparently this Koji.

dynamiteReady

This Conservative government really has to fucking go.

Facewon

I'd never heard Paul Joseph Watson's voice.

Lolololol.

Comedy gold.

Tempy

Imagine your shock

Diluted Dante

Still waiting on my free trip to Gothenburg.

cockbeard

Unlikely wrote:

So have we established who the racists are yet? Is it me?

Think it was me if memory serves

Just to clear something up though as some think 'horde' might be the racist part (perhaps even Koji is in this camp). Allow me to analogise a little. Lets imagine an unfashionable football club from South West London somehow managed to hoofball their way into the top division. They stayed there a while playing god awful ugly football. It takes Stoke a good 15 years of playing equally bad football before they stopped saying "it's like watching Wimbledon". No whilst new Wimbledon might be playing decent football, because they started the name in one sense it's a complement

Horde is only seen as derogatary because the Mongols were such bastards that they managed to change the public way of thinking about the word Horde. So I'm not sure yo can really get that offended by what yo started

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