Racist
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Or maybe it's offensive to people who drink tea. -
Hordes of tea drinking cunts.
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Wait, I can't call them hordes.
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The Mongol Hordes were actual things in history, they were nomadic and weren't very nice. Horde accurately describes them.
The band havent constructed the name, they have adopted it from history texts (and added lots of dots). -
nick_md wrote:Whilst this is definitely a bit of a storm in a teacup, if you can't see how horde is more derogatory than team or group then you're a bit silly, no? The Mongol group vs The Mongol horde I imagine the word 'horde' was used way back to describe this group precisely because it makes them seem more animalistic. Again, storm in a teacup, but referring to dictionary definitions alone ignores cultural weight / history of words.
You're ascribing modern usage to a historical name there. -
Ffs, I didn't think this was a difficult concept to grasp: certain words have associated meaning that isn't covered in their dictionary definition.
I thought I was pretty clear that I thought the whole thing was/is a storm in a tea cup, i.e. it doesn't matter. But saying horde / group etc are interchangeable and doesn't have the potential to offend some groups, in theory, is ridiculous. -
Remember that father ted where he calls the Chinese family 'dynasty'? Well that's factually accurate via the dictionary.
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Meanings of words and how offensive they can be to certain groups also changes over much shorter timespans than that between the Mongol Empire and now. -
I mean I like green tea but I don't like brown tea so I guess it is me.
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Yossarian wrote:
Plus there does seem to be a suggestion here that nobody’s offended. Has anyone sought out a Mongolian perspective on this?
Find me a Mongolian who is offended and that might sway me alright. But I kinda feel this falls into assumed offence.
Also a horde of shoppers is not unusual to hear around sales season to try and tie racism to this word is ridiculous.
SFV - reddave360 -
^^ that's not me saying it's racist btw, that's me saying I give up trying to explain how language works to people.
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They might just happen to be a group of Mongols who also happen to be cunts.
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RedDave2 wrote:Yossarian wrote:
Plus there does seem to be a suggestion here that nobody’s offended. Has anyone sought out a Mongolian perspective on this?
Find me a Mongolian who is offended and that might sway me alright. But I kinda feel this falls into assumed offence.
Didn’t take long, TBH.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-ouch-30129358 -
He's offended by the other use of the word. Mongol Horde is the correct use.
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Mayber, it was a quick search.
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I met a mute Mongolian man when I lived in Korea. Had a chat by writing in English on our phones.
That was cool.
Mongol Horde isn't racist christonabike. Negative, yes... but racist? -
I agree with Nick really, I don't think it's difficult to understand that "horde" to identify a group has negative connotations, even in RedDave's example of a "horde of shoppers" the image it is meant to conjure isn't of groups of people thoughtfully browsing shops, but of an invasive force, this is just simple language 101 stuff. The way you use words has meaning. I also fully agree that this is a total storm in a teacup thing, but people finding stuff offensive isn't PC gone made or anything, it's just part of an ongoing conversation to understand how the shape of the world is so fixed in a white colonial viewpoint that often people don't consider the potential impact of the things that they're doing or saying. Art is still getting made, people are still free to cause offence, there's just a potential for some critical thinking to be brought up off the back of it, because Education is invested in teaching post-colonial theory as a way of unshackling us from a century of the white canon in literature and art.
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Digging into this a bit more, it seems that my reading of this was off the mark anyway and the thing that Koji was taking issue with was the cultural appropriation aspect:
Cultural appropriation misrepresents culture and perpetuates stereotypes. It commodifies without contributing and shows no evidence of collaboration. Most of all, it’s about a power dynamic between the privileged and the oppressed.
https://twitter.com/kojisaysaloha/status/1093224593903489025 -
Are the Mongolians complaining or are they in the not giving a shit camp?"Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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I’m finding it very difficult to track down any Mongolian voices online.
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Ahaha, he literally links to the same BBC article that you did, entirely undoing his argument that its offensive.
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Given it's related to a relatively small punk band I doubt it's had much reach beyond student media. I'm sure as with most things, some will care and some won't, just like some gay people hate/don't mind the word queer and others hate/don't mind the word faggot.
My girlfriend knows a handful of Mongolian people because there are quite a few in Hungary. Hungary as a whole swings between a rather progressive side and an entrenched conservative side so you'll probably get mixed views from their. As with everything maybe it's better to apply some nuance to it all rather than saying it has to be one thing or the other. -
I found it on an article about the controversy listed as an article he had linked.
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Yossarian wrote:I found it on an article about the controversy listed as an article he had linked.
He should probably have read it before posting it. -
Maybe the point of the article was to show that the word was problematic and should be handled with care rather than outright offensive?
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