Cryptocurrency, Blockchain and buy Roujcoin now [ROU] - The Bear and Badger

GooberTheHat

I'm not asking about block chain. Block chain is fine, it's great. I love it to death.

I also understand why a cryptocurrency could be useful as a currency.

What I am asking is how; when they are not tethered to any tangible asset, company, organisation or nation state, are different cryptocurrencies (or tokens) worth different amounts of fiat currency?

WorKid

Sure, that's why we have cash.

But what makes these coins have any value?

It does indeed seem like a digital ponzi scheme.

Yossarian

All value of everything is derived from the price people are willing to pay for it, this is no different.

GooberTheHat

Gold has tangible value, it can be used in industry or made into pretty trinkets so it's not a valid comparison.

Fiat currency is linked to the stability and predicted productivity of the nation state that underwrites that currency, so again not a valid comparison imo.

WorKid

Yossarian wrote:

All value of everything is derived from the price people are willing to pay for it, this is no different.

Yes but WHY are people willing to pay anything for this? It doesn't look pretty.

Djornson

goober - please read Sapiens you will find it really interesting. I can't answer your question as i said earlier i am no expert.

WorKid - With regards to ponzi, the guy who invented blockchain hasn't made any money from it so i don't think it's a fair comparison. There are coins out there operating as a ponzi scheme though, one was even called ponzicoin lol, and people fell for it.

GooberTheHat

Yossarian wrote:

All value of everything is derived from the price people are willing to pay for it, this is no different.

It is though. A share in a company has value because you own a percentage of that company. The value of that share (generally) correlates with that companies likely hood to generate a profit.

Currencies rely on your faith in the country that garuntees that currency, that's why no one buys Zimbabwe shillings (or whatever they are) as a method to store their wealth, but dollars, pounds, euros etc are.

Yossarian

WorKid wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

All value of everything is derived from the price people are willing to pay for it, this is no different.

Yes but WHY are people willing to pay anything for this? It doesn't look pretty.

I can't speak to the why. I won't be investing.

[Deleted User]

Well a nation's currency is guaranteed by the nation itself. The nation's reputation, politics, assets, history, trade and ability to generate tax all come in to the value of their currency.

Gold is less tangible but has a history as long as human's have traded as an item of value. That isn't likely to disappear over night.
In our age it has also found a use in of itself in parts for technology, no where near it's actual value but more than some data has.

Edit: oops a bit slow half watching MotD

Yossarian

GooberTheHat wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

All value of everything is derived from the price people are willing to pay for it, this is no different.

It is though. A share in a company has value because you own a percentage of that company. The value of that share (generally) correlates with that companies likely hood to generate a profit. Currencies rely on your faith in the country that garuntees that currency, that's why no one buys Zimbabwe shillings (or whatever they are) as a method to store their wealth, but dollars, pounds, euros etc are.

Meanwhile, you get things like clothing where the raw material can cost pennies while the markup can be X amount for unbranded stuff or many times X amount because some of that raw material has been shaped into a logo which has zero tangible value.

GooberTheHat

Djornson wrote:

goober - please read Sapiens you will find it really interesting. I can't answer your question as i said earlier i am no expert.

WorKid - With regards to ponzi, the guy who invented blockchain hasn't made any money from it so i don't think it's a fair comparison. There are coins out there operating as a ponzi scheme though, one was even called ponzicoin lol, and people fell for it.

I've got it, not got round to reading it yet though.

Djornson

The value of cryptocurrency is nobody can link what your 'address' purchased to who you are, right?

I don't purchase anything dodgy so i am not too fussed by that. What is considered 'dodgy' can always change though i guess.

GooberTheHat

Yossarian wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

All value of everything is derived from the price people are willing to pay for it, this is no different.

It is though. A share in a company has value because you own a percentage of that company. The value of that share (generally) correlates with that companies likely hood to generate a profit. Currencies rely on your faith in the country that garuntees that currency, that's why no one buys Zimbabwe shillings (or whatever they are) as a method to store their wealth, but dollars, pounds, euros etc are.

Meanwhile, you get things like clothing where the raw material can cost pennies while the markup can be X amount for unbranded stuff or many times X amount because some of that raw material has been shaped into a logo which has zero tangible value.

But I can still wear the clothes, and that brand logo does have some value (to some) as a status symbol, and also an indication that that product will be of better quality than unbranded similar products, so that's not a valid analogy imo.

GooberTheHat

Djornson wrote:

The value of cryptocurrency is nobody can link what your 'address' purchased to who you are, right?

I don't purchase anything dodgy so i am not too fussed by that. What is considered 'dodgy' can always change though i guess.

The block chain tells everyone who cares to look who exchanged what with who doesn't it? It's a ledger that everyone who is involved has access to?

Yossarian

Cryptoshares have some value if people will buy them off you for more than you paid for them.

WorKid

Maybe it's as straightforward as asking - what can you do with these tokens?

WorKid

GooberTheHat wrote:

Djornson wrote:

The value of cryptocurrency is nobody can link what your 'address' purchased to who you are, right?

I don't purchase anything dodgy so i am not too fussed by that. What is considered 'dodgy' can always change though i guess.

The block chain tells everyone who cares to look who exchanged what with who doesn't it? It's a ledger that everyone who is involved has access to?

Yes but if you buy cryptocurrency with cash it can't be traced back to you as an individual. Maybe to an IP address if you are a moron.

GooberTheHat

Yossarian wrote:

Cryptoshares have some value if people will buy them off you for more than you paid for them.

Yeah, but why? Why would I buy you bitcoin off you for 6 grand each, instead of roujcoin for 10p each?

[Deleted User]

WorKid wrote:

Maybe it's as straightforward as asking - what can you do with these tokens?

Buy KFC

GooberTheHat

WorKid wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

Djornson wrote:

The value of cryptocurrency is nobody can link what your 'address' purchased to who you are, right?

I don't purchase anything dodgy so i am not too fussed by that. What is considered 'dodgy' can always change though i guess.

The block chain tells everyone who cares to look who exchanged what with who doesn't it? It's a ledger that everyone who is involved has access to?

Yes but if you buy cryptocurrency with cash it can't be traced back to you as an individual. Maybe to an IP address if you are a moron.

But I can still tie that transaction to a crypto wallet, and if the identity of that wallet is ever discovered, all transactions are identifiable.

Yossarian

GooberTheHat wrote:

Cryptoshares have some value if people will buy them off you for more than you paid for them.

Yeah, but why? Why would I buy you bitcoin off you for 6 grand each, instead of roujcoin for 10p each?

Cryptoshares have some value if people will buy them off you for more than you paid for them. If you believe that someone will pay you more for these in the future, you may buy them.

Djornson

WorKid wrote:

Maybe it's as straightforward as asking - what can you do with these tokens?

What tokens? It depends which blockchain technology you are talking about. I can't answer the question either way lol

Yossarian

It's entirely self-referential and reinforcing, but again, that's what value is.

GooberTheHat

Yossarian wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

Cryptoshares have some value if people will buy them off you for more than you paid for them.

Yeah, but why? Why would I buy you bitcoin off you for 6 grand each, instead of roujcoin for 10p each?

Cryptoshares have some value if people will buy them off you for more than you paid for them. If you believe that someone will pay you more for these in the future, you may buy them.

You're not answering my question as to why someone would pay more for it than I did, other than saying that they think someone else might buy it of them for more then they paid for it.

That's a bubble.

monkey

GooberTheHat wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

Cryptoshares have some value if people will buy them off you for more than you paid for them.

Yeah, but why? Why would I buy you bitcoin off you for 6 grand each, instead of roujcoin for 10p each?

Cryptoshares have some value if people will buy them off you for more than you paid for them. If you believe that someone will pay you more for these in the future, you may buy them.

You're not answering my question as to why someone would pay more for it than I did, other than saying that they think someone else might buy it of them for more then they paid for it.

That's a bubble.

Yes.

Djornson

GooberTheHat wrote:

The block chain tells everyone who cares to look who exchanged what with who doesn't it? It's a ledger that everyone who is involved has access to?

All you are on the chain is an address. For example my address is 3KVatFsFDi62kHoqKqWTATA3BMpnMxNuh2. That is the only piece of information you will ever know about 'me' from the blockchain. If i buy something via a bank transfer or credit card you know a lot about me, enough to google and find more.

Yossarian

It may well turn out to be a bubble, but it may not. They'll certainly be bubbles within it either way.

As I say, it isn't actually much different from most share trading, despite the fact that it isn't linked to ownership. If people can think that they'll make a buck from buying these, they'll keep buying them.

monkey

There’s no product here. You buy a digital piece of nothing in the hope that the company that produced it will do well enough to make other people want these nothings. You then sell to someone stupider. Last one holding is the stupidest.

Tempy

All in all you're just another block in the ch...all?

g.man

monkey wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

Cryptoshares have some value if people will buy them off you for more than you paid for them.

Yeah, but why? Why would I buy you bitcoin off you for 6 grand each, instead of roujcoin for 10p each?

Cryptoshares have some value if people will buy them off you for more than you paid for them. If you believe that someone will pay you more for these in the future, you may buy them.

You're not answering my question as to why someone would pay more for it than I did, other than saying that they think someone else might buy it of them for more then they paid for it. That's a bubble.

Yes.

but like I said, as it's a bubble based on nothing tangible, the ceiling is potentially limitless.
Which also means that overnight it could become completely worthless, but people don't like to believe that. Their faith alone keeps the prices rising. People lose that faith, it's game over.

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