Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - The Bear and Badger

Tempy

JonB wrote:

I'm also starting to wonder if playing on a base PS4 is an issue at all. I'm not usually one to give a shit about frame rates, but maybe it makes a difference here?

Coming back to this after chatting to Dan about it. DF say it has frame pacing issues on base PS4, which is likely contributing to the issue. Bloodborne was interminable at times thanks to the frame pacing and 30fps stuff, but eventually manageable.

It has probably helped it click for me, but I'd like to try it on the PS4 just to see what the difference was, but now I am at a stage where I can do the bosses without really struggling at all so it probably wouldn't be a helpful experiment. Still, it'd be interesting to see how much of it is the frame and execution issues.

The windows to react to perilous attacks does seem to compensate somewhat though, as on PC they feel like huge expanses of time.

JonB

Tempy wrote:

I think my issue with the Souls games is death is often inexplicable due to the nature of gear, stats, stamina, invulnerability frames and so on. In Sekiro, it's very nearly always explicable - there are a handful of moves in the game that deal damage through your block, and they are generally elemental, or require a prefect deflect. There are very few one hit kills (if any?) and maybe two total AoE moves that will hurt you if you don't back away.

Unlike the Souls series, enemies are nearly always human, and as such their movements are again more explicable than the weird menagerie of beasts and ghost and demons in the Souls games that have a weird range of unpredictable movements and body shapes that making reading them a crap shoot - I'm thinking of you, Ludwig.

Finally, there are only two fights in the whole game that you cannot control whether you fight them with or without extra shitheels attacking you from behind, and one of those is optional, the other only required if you do a certain story path.

It just seems designed to remove the frustration that piled high in the rest of From's games, there is the genuine possibility of mastery without ever needing to concern yourself about the mercurial nature of the stamina bar.

The explicable/inexplicable thing doesn't really matter when you've just got to learn all the different attacks anyway. And there are plenty of counterintuitive things in Sekiro (grabs that aren't grabs etc.). It doesn't really matter if the enemies are human either when the their attacks mix up so much and are often designed to throw off your timing (another thing DS3 was particularly bad for).

And in the end, Capra has about 3 different attacks, 4 Kings about 5, Quelaag about 8, and they're all slow. Here, your first major bosses have over a dozen, they're all quick and they sometimes chain together in different ways. The they introduce new ones halfway through the fight.

Plus poise is just a variant of stamina. If you've been stunned because you mistimed a parry, bosses often have a follow up attack that often amounts to a one-hit kill.

So swings and roundabouts, I guees. But I can play DS1 far better than I'll ever be able to play this.

Tempy

I think posture is far easier to read than stamina, and is more lenient. There’s even a boss (the last one you did) who is punishable if you let him break your guard because of how he follows up. ai can certainly count the amount of times i’ve suffered a posture break mod combo, and for me it’s been fairly rare because the game seems designed to not let it happen too often. This may be a frame issue thoughz

The issue with Capra isn’t his handful of attacks for me, it’s always been the crapshoot of dodging that first swing, praying the dogs don’t hit you or harry you as you attempt to get up the stairs. praying the AI works in the way you need it to - yet it gets praised as a learning experience in a way that stuff like Gyobou don’t, even though he’s far simpler and should give you some oppirntines to practice some deflects against slow attacks and see how fast your posture recovers if you simply hold block as he rides away. Imagine Gyobou with horse archers, which is how i’d imagine the same fight done in DS3 (Dragon Armour!)

The thing about grabs that aren’t grabs and so on is that the perilous system needs to be taken as written - low attacks are always sweeps, even if their end result is a grab, it’s about the stance the attack is in rather than what it actually does to you in the end. It might be a translation issue, but again when that clicked it made a few attacks in the game make a lot more sense.

I didnt find enemies chained attacks or varied things too much, but it’s true that after deathblows the often vary their tactics, for example

Spoiler:

Mikemsp

That’s what I thought at first but now I’m destroying everything in this pretty much. I thought I’d never be able to succeed in this on certain bosses without summoning. I’m not skilled at these games in the slightest, I’ve just learnt and practiced how to play it

Tempy

Part of me wants to go back to Dark Souls 3 after playing this but I think i’d rather put my hands in a vice. Just thinking about certain bosses is making me mad.

JonB

I played DS3 again briefly just before this. I still don't like it very much. It's always trying to fake you out with the timing of attacks, to the point they just don't look right, and enemies have some ridiculous combos, considering how slow your character moves. It seems that they want you to parry everything there as well, but the system just isn't as reliable. Even healing is slower and you often get punished for it.

So I appreciate that in Sekiro at least they've given you a character and systems that can deal with the kind of combat they've been moving towards since BB. But it's just that bit too quick and complex for me.

JonB

And we've just about written another joint article at this stage.

Tempy

Hahaha, I hope it’s at least being taken in good faith. This the first game they’ve made that hasn’t made me want to pull my teeth out at the thought of going back to certain areas. If I ever had to fight Dragon Armour again I think I’d have a heart attack.

Kernowgaz

Well I’ve hit a brick wall and need to learn parry again. Come across quite a few more mini bosses and can’t remover there names but LAG smashes the shit out of me , went there once and it was brutal.

Unlike many here I’m shit at these games but enjoy them. On Bloodborne and Soulss I needed summons to help. My 48yr old reactions aren’t up to it - probably

Kernowgaz

And still haven’t beaten LB

Tempy

For the LAG

Spoiler:

JonB

Kernowgaz wrote:

Well I’ve hit a brick wall and need to learn parry again. Come across quite a few more mini bosses and can’t remover there names but LAG smashes the shit out of me , went there once and it was brutal.

If that's the one I'm thinking of it was surprisingly easy in the end, even for me. You can

Spoiler:

JonB

Tempy wrote:

Hahaha, I hope it’s at least being taken in good faith. This the first game they’ve made that hasn’t made me want to pull my teeth out at the thought of going back to certain areas. If I ever had to fight Dragon Armour again I think I’d have a heart attack.

There's so much cheapness in those bosses. I think it was Champion Gundyr where he does a long combo and leaves maybe half a second window at the end for you to attack. But sometimes he does the same combo and adds another hit onto the end, so you can't even risk taking advantage of that short space.

Of course, DS3 is also where this multi-life bar thing started. I'm still bitter.

Kernowgaz

On LAG the cameras fucking shit, it’s easy

Spoiler:

but you get forced back and can’t see fuck all

Tempy

If you get shoved into the wall, unlock and wall jump/jump off him

Kernowgaz

Thing is you don’t get time to heal if you get caught even with Firecrackers, I always throw to far away from him cos of panic

Dark Soldier

I can confirm deflect is a lot, lot easier on PC than PS4. Smooth 60fps helps massively.

Kernowgaz

Like DS Smoooooooth

Dark Soldier

So smooth I sent a customer an email in all caps today by accident

Tempy

Kernowgaz wrote:

Thing is you don’t get time to heal if you get caught even with Firecrackers, I always throw to far away from him cos of panic

Yeah if you get hit you're probably dead to be fair, but covnersely if you deflect everything he kills himself. Maybe pick up heal on deathblow?

Tempy

Dark Soldier wrote:

I can confirm deflect is a lot, lot easier on PC than PS4. Smooth 60fps helps massively.

Shit, now I need to play it on PS4 to prove I am not a scrub.

Kernowgaz

Tempy wrote:

Kernowgaz wrote:

Thing is you don’t get time to heal if you get caught even with Firecrackers, I always throw to far away from him cos of panic

Yeah if you get hit you're probably dead to be fair, but covnersely if you deflect everything he kills himself. Maybe pick up heal on deathblow?

How does he kill himself?

I’ve not even got one bar done before I get hit and then game over.

LivDiv

Picked this up earlier so will give it a go tonight.
If it doesnt change my life Tempy is in trouble.

Tempy

Kernowgaz wrote:

Tempy wrote:

Kernowgaz wrote:

Thing is you don’t get time to heal if you get caught even with Firecrackers, I always throw to far away from him cos of panic

Yeah if you get hit you're probably dead to be fair, but covnersely if you deflect everything he kills himself. Maybe pick up heal on deathblow?

How does he kill himself?

I’ve not even got one bar done before I get hit and then game over.

Because of you block you take him up to maximum posture, then you deathblow. You don’t ever need to actually attack him, so he basically throws himself at your blade.

Tempy

LivDiv wrote:

Picked this up earlier so will give it a go tonight.
If it doesnt change my life Tempy is in trouble.

oh no

Dinostar77

Ok I'm stumped by something very early on in the game, will spoiler

Spoiler:

hylian_elf

Crouch. Simple.

Kernowgaz

Haha

hylian_elf

It might take some getting used to. Like pressing jump properly in Destiny 2.

Dinostar77

hylian_elf wrote:

Crouch.

Lol it worked, how did I miss that when I was crouching anyway?

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