Slay the Spire: B&B GOTY 2018, 2020, 2021, and Forum Pariah 2019 - The Bear and Badger

b0r1s

Sorry couldn’t make it. Too busy drinking wine on hols.

Roujin

Outrageous. Ban rqst b0r1s pls @DS

Nina

I can use the buttons now

I still stuck, I'm sure better players would have won this run as it felt pretty solid (I did start to feel lack of block a bit toward the end).

My best move was throwing away 300+ gold for a small heal, when there was a store just 2 steps away. Where I of course couldn't do anything with my 25 gold. I don't even know what it had as I ran away embarrassed as quickly as possible.

The Daddy

Finally got to the end with the three coloured things! Didn't win, but was a storming run.

hylian_elf

I’m still shit at this. Crack cocaine though.

Roujin

SURPRISE NO LIFE WASHED OLD MAN STREAM IS RIGHT NAO

http://www.twitch.tv/mm_roujin

hylian_elf

I’m so bad at this. Need tips.

Playing as Ironclad. I end up a lot of times with enemies about to attack lots but I don’t have defend cards in my hand. Sometimes I end up with 4 defend cards! What’s the trick?

Facewon

Some of it depends on the area, but one thing to remember is that most enemies have very set patterns. They do the same thing every time at the start of a fight, and if they don't it's only 2 variations.

It's also worth baring in mind that nearly all enemies get worse the longer the fight goes on.

They either throw cards at you to clutter your deck, or debuffs, or they get stronger.

I say that, because especially with IC, the trick may be to take a couple of light hits early to stop some later big hits.

This is very true of the blue bird mask dudes in first area, who buff on first turn always to then gain 4 strength every turn.

Big red elite is another that will eat HP. Because he gains strength every time you use a skill, you're better off eating early hits so you're not copping 20hp+ attacks by the second turn.

More generally, keeping deck small and with a sort of theme is good, generally. (Depending on relics etc)

You don't always have to take a card when you get the offer, and you want to make sure the ones you select work with each other.

If you can hit first boss with a small deck with some of your attacks and defends replaced with stronger stuff, then you're in good shape. (Because if you're only cycling through say 15 cards, you pretty much always know stuff you want is 1 or 2 shuffles away.)

hylian_elf

Thanks.

I’m literally nodding off on my Switch but I want one more go...

SpaceGazelle

What I will say Elf is go a bit risky on the first map and don't rest. Concentrate on upgrading cards rather than healing. Then be more cautious on the next map. Also with IC attract is sometimes the best form of defence.

Facewon

Attract for massive damage.

SpaceGazelle

Bloody women.

Facewon

Been dabbling with all three builds this morning.

There's 2 major points with ic that are pretty staple.

1. The default way you'll win is by having lots fo strength. There's number of cards for it, get used to how they work, and upgrade them if possible. There's a couple that become crazy with the right relic and upgrade. As soon has you have any strength in play, you want heavy strike, preferably upgraded. There's obviously more to say, but that's the obvious stuff.

2. It's harder to get working and takes some trial and error, but probably (possibly) more than the other builds, IC has some amazing stuff going on with exhausting cards. It's hard to manage sometimes, but it means you can have a 30 card deck that ends up 10 cards with massive strength, enough block and some big hitter cards every deal.

Nina

I had my first Ironclad victory on Switch yesterday, and it was a bit like you're no 2 option there:

Feel no Pain is the one that gives you block for exhausting cards I think. There's no way that deck is perfect, and I don't think I played it too it's full potential tbh. Still, it was a win.

Try to catch some jorbs videos on Twitch or YouTube @Elf, those have loads of knowledge. Tempy did a post about it earlier in the thread, I'll try and find it.

Nina

Quoted for knowledge:

Tempy wrote:

This is the guy I was talking about yesterday btw. JoINrbs. He's the only Spire streamer i've bothered with because I found him early on and he is very calm, analytical and good and knows the game inside out. His Spireside chat videos go so deep into the theory behind the game.

A recent video about Nemesis and Optimal players in Poker versus the idea of a StS "perfect" run, and one where he talks about the ways the game fails to challenge his decks in meaningful ways in the most recent patches, are both amazing.

His "over explained" runs tend to come in at around 3hrs or more, but if you want to understand the game properly, they're essential viewing.

My problem is that to get as good at the game as he has, you really need to be very good at holding a lot of info in your head all at once, and know optimal times to use potions and so on during boss fights. My win rate is really poor right now, under 10%, whereas on Normal it should be around 90-100% possible to win every single seed you play. JoInrbs at one point had a 22 win streak with The Silent on Ascension 15 (back when it was the highest difficulty) and last night my loss streak with The Silent last night was 25 deep, and that's as someone who kinda knows what they're doing.

My issue is macro vs micro. I am ok at telling what cards are good for my deck in the long run, but not what I need right now, or I might need next Act, as I am not familiar enough with the bosses. With regards to the idea of the game "deck checking" via bosses and so on, the bosses at first seem similar but in actual fact they are all checking your deck for a variety of things such as ability front loading damage on specific turns, ability to deal AoE, ability to control your deck and so on. It's all very interesting, and why this game is so incredible.

b0r1s

One other piece of info which I think is useful is try as many cards as possible early on. I still haven’t used all cards but I’m trying to avoid falling into the same patterns by using cards I don’t typically go for. It will broaden your knowledge of the deck synergies.

Facewon

Good stuff.

I've been miss-counting my runs. I've just beaten a13 with silent. Which means I'm up to a14 with all. I might bother to post screen.

It was an absolutely blessed run. Icecream early. 2 catalysts appeared before I had any poison cards. Was able to upgrade all important cards. Kept deck under 20 and had calc gamble upgraded, plus alchemist.

Basically got to triple poison and Corp explode everything.

b0r1s

Noice. When I get back home will be back on my PC run.

Did a sweet Defect Claw run last night on Asc2. Got Time Keeper but absolutely smashed him at the end with claws doing 50+ damage.

hylian_elf

Thanks all; will give vids a watch and try tips out.

I might be shit at it, but so fucking addictive

The Daddy

I’ve been resisting the temptation to watch vids and stuff. The discovery/realisation aspect is great when something twigs. Although frustrating if you realise a combo too late. One thing that I was dead chuffed about was how

Spoiler:

Roujin

Asc. 15 cleared with all characters woo! Here is a classic vid featuring my brain repeatedly failing to do maths after a long week. I really enjoyed this run, even if it took ages, it had some close fights, a little bit of hot meme action with one or two cards coming together and some semi careful turn planning.

Immediately after this I was feeling myself and managed to get to the heart with IC on Asc 16 with a very silly strength/armaments/searing blow type of deck!

b0r1s

Asc1 on Silent on Switch. Went for a tricky shiv run. Didn’t get any decent energy relics I could use for Silent so went for the shiv relic and the cards one (which was shite).

So running 3 energy was a challenge on third floor. Got deca and docu just to make things more tricky.

Was wondering how bad my luck was that not once did I get accuracy to make life easier and got it as an unlock at the end... doh!!

Nina

First Silent run on Switch. Ended dead at the feet of the collector.

Got a question, this was my first shop:

and this was my deck at that point (very early in the game)

Curious what people would have bought at the shop here, most of the cards seem to be a decent option and I had enough money to buy at least 2 things here.

Facewon

100% you should have spent 75 on removing a block card from your deck.

I could be talked into either choke or dagger spray as I like them, but at that point you have HEAPS of block to be going on with.

Poison or Shivs are obviously the 2 main routes for silent, but you don't have any shiv cards yet (so choke is meh) and you don't have nay relics that would make you lean either way. (if you had one of the do 3 attacks and get X relics that would lean you to shiv fro example.)

Nina

I didn't even think of removing at that point...

And when I removed a card later it was a strike, because I had a 0 cost card that gave you 3 block if you would draw a skill.

I picked dagger spray and poison here.

At some point I got the whetstone (is that the one that gives extra damage to 0 cost cards) so I picked up 2 shiv cards (one that gives you 3 shivs and 1 that gives you a shiv each turn). By that point I had already added a poison + and bouncing flask.

It was a pretty interesting deck in the end, and it was fine up until The Collector, although I think I only did 1 act 2 elite. Was good to play Silent again.

Facewon

Removing costs more as it goes, so get in early.

Whetstone upgrades two attacks.

Both ok cards. Tbh, at that stage that's a bit of an annoying shop, because you had no relics and no clear cut awesome cards in any direction. Infinite blades is ok, straight poison is ok, but they're not uber.

Can't tell you how big it is to have your good cards coming up lots.

Your deck at that stage is already 15, with 9 of them being bleh cards, (block and strike), if you can get that to 15-16 with only 6-7 bleh cards then you're having great cards come around every 3 turns Max. With some card draw/zero cost etc then things come up heaps.

Silent has another couple of little secondary strengths worth keeping an eye out for.

1. Where ironclad does lots fo exhaust stuff, ilent has a few tricks with discard. I wouldn't set out to do a discard deck, but it's worth keep an eye on if you get a good relic early or luck out on sneaky strike etc.

2. Innate/zero cost cards. In keeping with the silent sneaky assassin stylies, it can be cool to load up on the zero cost attacks Nd defends that default to innate and exhaust.

Big deck on first hand with default relic, if you luck out on a 3 attack relic and get some of those innate cards you can basically start every battle with + strength etc, and doing big damage before getting into the weak part of your deck. (and because they exhaust, they keep your deck super small.)

Facewon

Frantic or Tempy can probably give me the proper nerd maths calculations on the difference in % chance of cards appearing depending on deck size.

Gets trickier to work out but goes up with extra card draw or discard and replace stuff.

Nina

Awesome post Face, that's the kinda stuff I was looking for when I posted the screenshots.

Like you said, it's a good shop, but not that useful considering the stage I was at in the game. I only did the first 3 hallway fights so that's where my cards come from.

Would be nice to see some other people's opinions on what their picks would be too.

Facewon wrote:

Whetstone upgrades two attacks.

Must have been a different one, I definitely had something that improved my 0 cost attacks. Which was getting me a taste of the situation no 2 in your post.

FranticPea

Facewon wrote:

Frantic or Tempy can probably give me the proper nerd maths calculations on the difference in % chance of cards appearing depending on deck size.

Not me, maths isn't my strong point.

Need to play this more, just been so busy.

I haven't had a victory yet but I'm reaching the act 3 boss more or less every other run. No idea how far that is though.

Thought I'd beat it last time I played but a super cheap stunt by it put a stop to that.

Facewon

https://www.statisticshowto.datasciencecentral.com/probability-of-picking-from-a-deck-of-cards/
I'ma try and work it out.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories