The Next Next Gen Thread o/\o - The Bear and Badger

b0r1s

I watched Linus’ video where he questioned the validity of the Tim Sweeney “best in class” quote. He seems to have changed his mind.

https://youtu.be/4ehDRCE1Z38

Be interested to get someones view who knows more than I do (I.e. anyone, but I’m really thinking Gurt)

LivDiv

I like Linus but he has a habit of putting his foot in it when he steps out of his wheelhouse.

I'm not even 100% sure on what he is saying in that video about game sizes is correct.

He says levels are broken up into sections for loading purposes, which is likely true. Then he says this makes overall game sizes bigger because each section of level needs to have a separate iteration of an asset (he uses a Stop sign as example but could be a crate or a barrel or a billboard).
This I am almost certain isnt true unless the game is incredibly poorly made.
You make an asset and then use draw calls to load that asset.
If levels are subdivided currently then there is a benefit in not subdividing them if Sony's ssd tech can do that but that is more about managing draw calls than overall game size.

The main thing that can cut game sizes down is intelligent use of variables and constants. Epic have been doing a lot of this with Unreal. For example an artist creates a barrel. The specular, normal and geometry for that can be constant while the diffuse can be assigned a variable value that means the colour can be changed. You can have as many colours of barrel as the engine can support while everything else is constant, only the colour will be a separate and quite basic call.

Minkymu

cockbeard wrote:

Kaz wrote:

We were worried it couldn't go quite viral enough

Not been able to get on for a while. But this sums it up for me. I mean wtf.

The whole situation is a mess for next gen launches as understandably the BLM movement’s gained traction. But lets be honest people are just jumping on the bandwagon to look good now (i am looking at you Activision / cod)

God knows when anyone is going to hold any press events to launch the new consoles as no one wants to look like an insensitive twat. When in reality they dont give 2tits.

Minnesänger

LivDiv wrote:

Then he says this makes overall game sizes bigger because each section of level needs to have a separate iteration of an asset (he uses a Stop sign as example but could be a crate or a barrel or a billboard).
This I am almost certain isnt true unless the game is incredibly poorly made.
You make an asset and then use draw calls to load that asset.

I mean, that’s true on standard HDDs no? Asset duplication is real because of slow read speeds. Better to duplicate certain things and keep them in a chunk to help with streaming.

mistercrayon

I thought the point was keep a version of a thing that shows up everywhere near on the HDD where you are loading the current data from this bit of the game so the read head doesn’t have to zip all over the place.

But to me the idea of using a stop sign trivialised his point a bit. I can’t imagine the savings here will overcome the overall increases

acemuzzy

Minnesänger wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

Then he says this makes overall game sizes bigger because each section of level needs to have a separate iteration of an asset (he uses a Stop sign as example but could be a crate or a barrel or a billboard).
This I am almost certain isnt true unless the game is incredibly poorly made.
You make an asset and then use draw calls to load that asset.

I mean, that’s true on standard HDDs no? Asset duplication is real because of slow read speeds. Better to duplicate certain things and keep them in a chunk to help with streaming.

But shouldn't be true with SSD, cos there's ~zero seek time? Is the whole disc in the next gen consumers meant to be solid state, or is it some hybrid shizzle? Can't really remember...

b0r1s

Solid state

GurtTractor

Yeah the next consoles will be fully solid state, apart from the disc drive.. And the fans. The drives will be similar to this sort of thing -

Paul the sparky

So, solid state. 0.21 seconds to load.

afgavinstan

Nice.

isanbard

The Cherno videos got a lot of traction on the PS5 Cerny talk and were enlightening for those of us who aren't in the industry. There's 3 of them so a bit of a sit through but nicely done all in.
He gets quite excited about the SSDs and the audio.

Dunno if they've been posted here before?

Minnesänger

acemuzzy wrote:

Minnesänger wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

Then he says this makes overall game sizes bigger because each section of level needs to have a separate iteration of an asset (he uses a Stop sign as example but could be a crate or a barrel or a billboard).
This I am almost certain isnt true unless the game is incredibly poorly made.
You make an asset and then use draw calls to load that asset.

I mean, that’s true on standard HDDs no? Asset duplication is real because of slow read speeds. Better to duplicate certain things and keep them in a chunk to help with streaming.

But shouldn't be true with SSD, cos there's ~zero seek time? Is the whole disc in the next gen consumers meant to be solid state, or is it some hybrid shizzle? Can't really remember...

Yeah, shouldn’t need asset duplication on the Sony SSD - it’s not a hybrid and it’s designed with de-duplicators as one of the core tenants.

Minnesänger

isanbard wrote:

The Cherno videos got a lot of traction on the PS5 Cerny talk and were enlightening for those of us who aren't in the industry. There's 3 of them so a bit of a sit through but nicely done all in.
He gets quite excited about the SSDs and the audio.

Dunno if they've been posted here before?

Yeah good vids, those.

Eric

Paul the sparky wrote:

So, solid state. 0.21 seconds to load.

Ha ha very good.

poprock

I only just got that gag. Well played Sparkles.

LivDiv

Minnesänger wrote:

acemuzzy wrote:

Minnesänger wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

Then he says this makes overall game sizes bigger because each section of level needs to have a separate iteration of an asset (he uses a Stop sign as example but could be a crate or a barrel or a billboard).
This I am almost certain isnt true unless the game is incredibly poorly made.
You make an asset and then use draw calls to load that asset.

I mean, that’s true on standard HDDs no? Asset duplication is real because of slow read speeds. Better to duplicate certain things and keep them in a chunk to help with streaming.

But shouldn't be true with SSD, cos there's ~zero seek time? Is the whole disc in the next gen consumers meant to be solid state, or is it some hybrid shizzle? Can't really remember...

Yeah, shouldn’t need asset duplication on the Sony SSD - it’s not a hybrid and it’s designed with de-duplicators as one of the core tenants.

I guess there may be a certain amount of compression possible with keeping things in clusters?
I'm still not all that convinced this is going to make a huge amount of difference on overall game size they will still be big. Not between SX and PS5 anyway, obviously ssd in general will be an improvement from this gen.

Kernowgaz

What’s supposed to be so groundbreaking with the Ps5 audio compared to the standard 5.1 Dolby Atmos?

RedDave2

You can hear Mark Cerny whisper "you're a winner" in your headset every 10 minutes

g.man

Imagine the internet shitshow there's going to be at the first PS5 game that doesn't load near instantly. It's going to be hilarious.

Syph79

g.man wrote:

Imagine the internet shitshow there's going to be at the first PS5 game that doesn't load near instantly. It's going to be hilarious.

It’ll be the 6-7 game you need to install for a start. I’m all for the SSD, but at around 800gb, that’s going to fill up fast, and there’s going to be a lot of deleting installs and re-installing down the line.

GurtTractor

Kernowgaz wrote:

What’s supposed to be so groundbreaking with the Ps5 audio compared to the standard 5.1 Dolby Atmos?

They're aiming for a much more realistic representation of 3D sound, using HRTF filters and some new ways to blend them together. It means instead of simulating however many speakers in a physical space you will get sounds appearing above, below, and basically any direction from the camera. Check out binaural audio or HRTF demos while wearing headphones to get an idea of just how effective it can be.

A number of games have already got their own implementations of this, Overwatch, BFV IIRC, and there's a mod for Skyrim to add HRTF audio which is quite nice.

I'll have to watch the part of that presentation again but I think that it's going to be something that can be applied globally to supported games, and will have more customisation to get a profile that matches your head shape, hair, ears etc.

Dinostar77

Do we have a seperate thread for pc monitors? I need one now my wife has taken mine to her study. Nothing too expensive. I'd prefer ultrawide 29 or 348nch as that saves on having to buy two monitors. I need the screen space as i often rdp onto two vm's (virtual machines) for work stuff.

acemuzzy

Some chat on http://188.226.213.150/discussion/99/pc-gaming-/p279 cos I was asking the same recently. There's a TV thread I think but not a monitor one??

GurtTractor

Yeah we should probably have a displays/monitors thread, as this comes up often enough and it's really quite complicated and tricky. I don't have time to sort one out just now but might be able to start something a bit later, would be nice to have a place with the glossary of all the terms as well as various badger recommendos and reports from what we are using.

MattyJ

g.man wrote:

Imagine the internet shitshow there's going to be at the first PS5 game that doesn't load near instantly. It's going to be hilarious.

It'll be a cross platform game and the series x will be blamed

acemuzzy

Lol like there'll be games on SeX, etc etc

LivDiv

The whole 1st party showcase will be someone from Sony pointing out where a corridor would have been.

RedDave2

I for one will miss the pointless dialogue filled walk-a-longs that I've grown used to as loading screens.

Gears 1 will probably just have A-train saying "Juice!" before we go straight back to shooty-bang.

regmcfly

Sony -

You can play games on disc

Microsoft -

Here is a real car

Nintendo -

I hope to fuck you still like Mario.

Paul the sparky

GurtTractor wrote:

Yeah we should probably have a displays/monitors thread, as this comes up often enough and it's really quite complicated and tricky. I don't have time to sort one out just now but might be able to start something a bit later, would be nice to have a place with the glossary of all the terms as well as various badger recommendos and reports from what we are using.

I'd deffo appreciate that. It'd be handy to have that info to hand instead of having to search through multiple threads trying to remember where someone was last discussing a monitor.

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