The Next Next Gen Thread o/\o
  • I'd love an atmos setup. However, more wires and a toddler doesnt mix well. Nor does a wife who complains about existing wires anyway. A atmos soundbar if affordable could be a goer. Anything sony do soundwise can do will be appreciated.
  • whenever i hear about these fancy sound things, my instinct is to think like Sparks and assume it's mostly bollocks...if the sound's not coming out of a speaker from that direction, why would i think it was in that direction?

    but then i've just had a think...how do we hear direction anyway? if someone stands behind me and talks, i know they're behind me...yet i don't have a lug on the back of my head. best will in the world, those sound waves aren't going straight down me ear hole, they're bouncing off the back of my ear and rattling around the room etc....and yet somehow, by the time they've rattled around, been funneled down the ear canal, shook the inner ear bones about a bit...my brain tells me the sound is behind me. so really, it must be down to it 'understanding' a bit of echo, reverb, distortion, muffling etc in the sound to tell the brain the sound came from behind. and so from that, i guess you could fake that sound from a different direction, so long as the device has the ability to play enough subtle variations of the same sound at the same time, to hit you directly as if it had bounced around the room.
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  • acemuzzy
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    Yeah I was trying to figure that out too. Can reach ear with the direction out? I thought it was mainly the relative time of the she sound arriving at each ear? In which case hard to fake from speakers, easier from headphones??
  • The roots of 3D sound recording actually date back about a hundred years or more now, so it's not a new idea by any stretch of the imagination. I'd wager that Sony's current interest in the technology is firmly rooted in how useful this sort of technology will be for VR headsets rather than more conventional tv set-ups.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • I can see a tech solution working via a headset or earphones - we only have two ears after all. That same tech could be pumped out of two tv speakers, but there’s so many external factors (where the tv is in the room, how loud it is, etc.), I can’t see that being very successful. But then again, it could be an improvement and that may be enough.

    One thing I would say is that I recall a bunch of the tech people (DF et al) saying that this sound tech was already being used in some PC’s because it’s an AMD thing? If that’s true, I’m guessing that Sony have either refined it, or are just pushing it on a software level?
  • @Ram got to the point about having 2 ears a little faster than I can type!
  • regmcfly
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    So I can add some stuff here having been deaf in one ear previously and also having had titanium replacements for the bones in each of my ears.

    Hearing is not simply having a set of speakers around you, in fact that's actually a really reductive way of thinking about it.

    When I lost my hearing in my left ear, we started talking about WHEN I was hearing sounds in my right ear. That would often help, even minutely in terms of understanding where they were from. Sound travels, which is the key idea here. I went through some weird tests to try and help me with that.

    Thankfully they rebuilt my left ear but the fact is both ears are going again so I'm back using the same concepts.
    If something feels immediate, it's next to you. If it doesn't, and I grant this is something you probably would not be able to sense unless you've been in this exact situation, it is the most slight sense of far away.

    There's a great article here that explains it

    https://www.mpg.de/13373240/0423-verh-060830-hearing-in-3d

    Long and short is, this can be done on normal TVs.
  • regmcfly
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    The processing power needed to calculate those fraction of a second changes must be insane, particularly as they're also calculating where the player is. That would explain why the sound card is the same power as the PS4. but this shit is easily doable because millions of people with hearing impairments do it every day.
  • regmcfly
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    Now if any game developer wants to launch a bone induced headset let me know as I will probably be deaf soon.
  • The Sonos Arc is teh bomb. Eye wateringly expensive and not as good as Sennhiesers effort by all accounts sound stage wise
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  • Jeez, Reg, that’s not a fun situation. Is there any explanation as to why the op was only a temporary fix, and why it wouldn’t work if you went through it (or something else) again?
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    Syph79 wrote:
    Jeez, Reg, that’s not a fun situation. Is there any explanation as to why the op was only a temporary fix, and why it wouldn’t work if you went through it (or something else) again?

    Not worth going through it. People will know from oldrum I've had, now 22 surgeries on my ear. Family history of deafness and amazing advances in tech have helped me but my hearing is slowly going. I've made my peace with it, but one thing I know about is how sound works!
  • The challenge they mentioned in the Cerny video is that to get it out of a TV the sweet spot is not easy to achieve.

    In a addition to time delay (you know something is on the left because your left ear hears it slightly early than the other) another trick they have is that a sound of a certain frequency has a very precise adjustment in frequency based on the angle it hits your head. (This is very precise for every person so they are using profiles that cover most people)

    So if you know the characteristic of a bullet sound (say) then they can maths on top to make it sound a precise location away by adjusting the nature of the sound.

    Combining what you see with what you hear I think will make the illusion convincing but also why it might be possible with TV speakers.
  • regmcfly
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    The thing is soundwaves are all science. It's all waves and how they are delivered. It's ridiculous to think people can't figure out the science of it.
  • regmcfly
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    Of courses the joke here is that Sony's new system probably won't work properly with my ears so fuck it why buy one.
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    We have a Sonos in our house and there has been points where I've not registered shit hat flora has.
  • Nier Automata has sound in it at a certain frequency that cant be heard if your over a certain age. I cant recall the details. That made me feel old when i read that in the review.
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    That tech has been around for years. The ACAB used it to disperse groups of gangs about a decade ago.
  • Nier doesn’t even have a 5.1 option in the sound settings so they can bugger off with their magical young person sounds.
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    acemuzzy wrote:
    Yeah I was trying to figure that out too. Can reach ear with the direction out? I thought it was mainly the relative time of the she sound arriving at each ear? In which case hard to fake from speakers, easier from headphones??

    I don't know how they do that without knowing the location of the speakers relative to the audience. So headphones would be fairly simple (once you've worked out the maths). How you you you that for a non standard speaker set up I have no idea.

    https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/380741
    Similar to stereoscopy, stereophony is based on combining information in the brain from the two ears, creating a robust illusion that confers the stimulus a special character of perspective known as three-dimensional (3D) depth and localisation. Both in the visual and auditory modalities, this character contributes to creating ‘objects', which are easier to segregate and identify than what would have happened if a single receiver had been available. For example, sound coming from a source on the right side of a subject reaches the left ear later than the right ear, as it has to travel further, and it reaches it with a lower intensity, as it has experienced the head shadow effect. The further to the right the source is located, the larger the interaural differences. If the two ears process sound in such a way that interaural differences are accurately encoded in the volleys of auditory-nerve action potentials in response to the sound, two complementary tasks are left to the brain: to detect that particular patterns of action potentials from the right and left side correlate so well that they can be ascribed to a single, definite object, and from the asymmetries between the two correlated inputs, to localise this object in some horizontal direction. These tasks are strongly frequency dependent, because the head shadow effect hardly affects low frequencies that experience diffraction by the head; conversely, timing differences are less efficiently encoded at high frequencies because the auditory neurons cannot encode the fine structure of high-frequency stimuli, but only their envelopes. The duplex theory of Lord Rayleigh [1907] was brought forth to account for the need for the brain to switch from timing to intensity cues, i.e. from interaural time differences (ITD) to interaural level differences (ILD) to locate sound sources with increasing frequencies.

    Thus, when submitted to this analysis, competing activities will be identified as separate objects located in different directions to which it will be much easier to pay (or not pay) attention than it would have been with a monaural input providing a flat, 2D sound landscape.
  • Given their system alludes to using emailed ear photographs I think they’ll rely on a home set up wizard to get an idea about sound.

    If the controller has a mic it should be pretty easy to triangulate.
  • I remember the first time I set up the Sonos speakers I had to walk around with my mobile phone, swinging it around like I was using it to bless the room.
  • The Daddy wrote:
    Nier doesn’t even have a 5.1 option in the sound settings so they can bugger off with their magical young person sounds.

    Yes.... Shout at the young cloud, you angry old man you.

    I fully expect this to bypass me in the much the same way 8k to 4k seems to. I can see its better - just not enough wow me.
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  • Don't you people realise?
    You've been duped. 
    This is what they want you to talk about. 
    Anything other than triangles.
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  • GooberTheHat
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    Why does anyone think Biden being senile is an issue? They elected trump ffs. Have you heard him talk? He makes a 5 year old sound coherent.
  • Because he's running on the 'left' and as a real politician so the rules are different.

    Trump could masturbate theoughout the debates, and would win plaudits for his stamina. Biden will stumble over his words, or forget something entirely and it will tank him.
  • Dark Soldier
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    In other US Politics news that PS event is now on the 11th.
  • June 11th is now the date for the PS5 reveal.

    This is also my birthday
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  • Note to self read the post above
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  • I cant wait to see this space toilet running.

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