The Next Next Gen Thread o/\o - The Bear and Badger

hylian_elf

afgavinstan wrote:

Question for the floor: If either of the "big two" are sold as a subscription, pay monthly and comes with Now/GamePass included, would you go for it? This is for the console itself. I could see it, and I'd probably do it.

Given the tiny number of games I now get to play, I'd stick with buy physical copies, lend out and borrow etc.

If I had ample time to play games, sub-model would be very attractive.

Dark Soldier

Ray Tracing is absolutely fucking amazing and I will.slap the shit out of those who say differently

RedDave2

afgavinstan wrote:

Question for the floor: If either of the "big two" are sold as a subscription, pay monthly and comes with Now/GamePass included, would you go for it? This is for the console itself. I could see it, and I'd probably do it.

Do you mean like a mobile phone? I probably would. Gamepass is a great service, a Sony or Nintendo version could be equally awesome. Quite were that puts certain developers and publishers I don't know but for the moment Gamepass gives me tremendous bang to buck ratio

Kara_Jane_Adams

afgavinstan wrote:

Question for the floor: If either of the "big two" are sold as a subscription, pay monthly and comes with Now/GamePass included, would you go for it? This is for the console itself.

I could see it, and I'd probably do it.

No, I don’t mind subscription models as an additional service, but not as the only choice.

Tempy

A lot of this sub stuff makes me super wary, but I don't earn a lot of money so I sub to a bunch of things cos it's quite cost-effective. Big poor hypocrit, me. Stadia seems really rotten to devs from what I've heard, C&C often talk about this a lot because Tom Francis is an actual developer and understands how all this stuff works from a practical level so I won't try and pretend I can convey it accurately, but his skepticism about Stadia seems to be founded from a very real place. Game devs need to be able to earn money to live - a lot of things like Stadia and Apple Arcade seem to mean devs are living game to game, it's why Devs will generally rally to things like Epic even though players hate exclusives, because a big chunk of money *and* the chance to have your game get returns at a later date is very attractive to them.

Minnesänger

Kara_Jane_Adams wrote:

Newer shinies and more powerful tech = / = better games has been an argument every gen since the N64.

It was one of the main arguments between Saturn & PlayStation, come to think of it many Spectrum vs C64 arguments were based around graphical fidelity.

This is fair. It's quite possible this argument started mostly around the PS2 gen, and then got amplified around the 360. I still think the point stands, though. I do remember this chat nearly every gen now.

Tempy

Dark Soldier wrote:

Ray Tracing is absolutely fucking amazing and I will.slap the shit out of those who say differently

Slap away big boy. Did all of Control without a single RTX box tapped and it was great.

Minnesänger

Tempy wrote:

A lot of this sub stuff makes me super wary, but I don't earn a lot of money so I sub to a bunch of things cos it's quite cost-effective. Big poor hypocrit, me. Stadia seems really rotten to devs from what I've heard, C&C often talk about this a lot because Tom Francis is an actual developer and understands how all this stuff works from a practical level so I won't try and pretend I can convey it accurately, but his skepticism about Stadia seems to be founded from a very real place. Game devs need to be able to earn money to live - a lot of things like Stadia and Apple Arcade seem to mean devs are living game to game, it's why Devs will generally rally to things like Epic even though players hate exclusives, because a big chunk of money *and* the chance to have your game get returns at a later date is very attractive to them.

Yup. This is absolutely a big issue. And hence why I'm wary of sub models for games right now.

afgavinstan

I know we've been over it elsewhere, it's just interesting to see attitudes now. I've definitely softened to it post-GamePass.

Another thing, bit deflated it's all out in a tweet on a Tuesday afternoon. I miss bathtubs of ducks, "sizzle reels" and awkward silences.

Tempy

Of course most people just don't give a shit, we just want games straight away, as cheap as possible. One thing I personally really dislike is when people say "oh I won't buy this game cos it looks like GamePass fodder" because I am sure the economics on it mean that the dev really would rather you bought their game, but we rarely think about the mechanics and economy of making games, we just want, want want. Listening to an actual dev with experience of making games really changes the way I have felt about a lot of this stuff. But again, I am a hypocrite cos I earn less than 10 grand a year and sub models are really good for building up a safe backlog of games that I can play and potentially write about one day.

Edit: not calling folk out for this, as I say, I am a hypocrite. I just feel like as the resident fey, art focused moron on this forum the thing I like the least about the growing rise of influencers is the Consumer Advocacy in games movement - yer Jim Sterlings and yer Yong Yea's and all that - I think it's incredibly myopic.

Minnesänger

Riiiiidge Raaaaacccccceeeeer!

Minnesänger

I look at sub-model compromising morals with regards game dev survivability the same way i look at people on lower incomes compromising morally re. animal welfare. It's understandable. It shouldn't be up to the people struggling with money to be the most moral.

But if you can afford not to treat developers like shit and pay for a unique experience that contains blood, sweat and tears....maybe you should do so.

Would Storytelller, Edith Finch, The Last Guardian or Nier exist on a sub-model? Quite possibly not. I don't think it's up to those living paycheck to paycheck to make sure those games can continue to exist.

Tempy

Yeah but most people here are boguie bastards with seven houses I SEE YOU ALL

Minnesänger

Yeah, bunch of middle-class fucks pretending to be down with the Proles.

Tempy

You and me Cinty, the red revolution.

Minnesänger

I would lick your ass so hard. Srsly. You'd feel my tonsils on your greater intestine.

Tempy

Well now

Minnesänger

So.
Fucking.
Deep.

LivDiv

Alternatively there are several games from small devs such as Edith Finch and The Observer that I wouldnt have played without Gamepass.

Those studios are now on my radar plus they earnt secondary revenue via my Gamepass subscription, all be it indirectly.

Key thing is options. I dislike Stadia because it locks both the consumer and dev/pub into a single store controlled by Google. I wouldnt want that to become the standard, there will only be one winner in that.

I don't think single purchase games are going anywhere, they are too profitable for publishers. Sub models that deliver games are made up mostly of games that have finished their run of their primary revenue stream. (With the exception of MS published ones but that's a different scenario and more about pushing hardware sales).

GurtTractor

Dark Soldier wrote:

Ray Tracing is absolutely fucking amazing and I will.slap the shit out of those who say differently

Important to keep in mind that you have a graphics card that costs over £1000

djchump

bad_hair_day wrote:

The future is wireless VR lads.

Rumours are this'll be how the next PSVR ships for PS5.

Will be interesting to see if MS scramble to make some more vapourware claims of Rift or other HMD support again for nextbone when the hypetrain picks up in earnest next year.

[Edit] Plus, one nice advantage that console VR has over standalone Oculus Quest is that they can pretty much guarantee that it's plugged into a big screen - which creates a fixed system that designers can use for asymetric gameplay with one player in VR and other players with controllers on the big screen.
There's that interesting looking one on Quest where 1 player is in VR and others connect from phone app versions of the game and play the attacking squirrels or something.

Minnesänger

LivDiv wrote:

Alternatively there are several games from small devs such as Edith Finch and The Observer that I wouldnt have played without Gamepass.

Those studios are now on my radar plus they earnt secondary revenue via my Gamepass subscription, all be it indirectly.

Key thing is options. I dislike Stadia because it locks both the consumer and dev/pub into a single store controlled by Google. I wouldnt want that to become the standard, there will only be one winner in that.

How many of those studios whose games are now “on your radar” have you paid full-price for their new releases?

The feedback from devs seems pretty comprehensive - this is the least shit deal in a shit situation (the “indiepocalypse” has meant games the offer singular play throughs ie. Finch, now suffer in the world of YouTube and Twitch) but maybe that’s not the case.

LivDiv

I dont think MS are too bothered by VR. It is a niche market.

mistercrayon

I’d prefer it if the consoles and games were geared for 1080p and ray traced.

Minnesänger

Gamepass and its ilk are great value but they also lead people into a simple hours per pound analysis that leads them to believe singular experience indie games = sales fodder soon.

Don’t want the same shit? Pay for something unique.

mistercrayon

Also: the PSVR is what saw me trip to ps4 over xbox but the move controller/ps eye2 system is a really janky solution to the control set up.

mistercrayon

Minnesänger wrote:

Gamepass and its ilk are great value but they also lead people into a simple hours per pound analysis that leads them to believe singular experience indie games = sales fodder soon.

Don’t want the same shit? Pay for something unique.

Subs model also will incentivise grind mechanics over something sweet like goose game.

LivDiv

Minnesänger wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

Alternatively there are several games from small devs such as Edith Finch and The Observer that I wouldnt have played without Gamepass.

Those studios are now on my radar plus they earnt secondary revenue via my Gamepass subscription, all be it indirectly.

Key thing is options. I dislike Stadia because it locks both the consumer and dev/pub into a single store controlled by Google. I wouldnt want that to become the standard, there will only be one winner in that.

How many of those studios whose games are now “on your radar” have you bought full-price for their new releases?

The feedback from devs seems pretty comprehensive - this is the least shit deal in a shit situation (the “indiepocalypse” has meant games the offer singular play throughs ie. Finch, now suffer in the world of YouTube and Twitch) but maybe that’s not the case.

Well Giant Sparrow havent released anything else.

Blair Witch launched onto Gamepass so I was hardly going to buy it and I'm glad I didnt because I thought it was shit in comparison to The Observer. I probably wouldnt have bought it at all as the trailers did nothing for me.

If the argument is they can't make money because people just watch it on YouTube or Twitch then that is a separate argument and an inherent danger of making a game with minimal interaction.

djchump

mistercrayon wrote:

Also: the PSVR is what saw me trip to ps4 over xbox but the move controller/ps eye2 system is a really janky solution to the control set up.

Aye - I figure the inside-out tracking from WMR, Rift S and Quest is the way it'll go from now on. Hopefully we won't need lighthouses and external cameras any more.

bad_hair_day

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