Of dreams and night terrors and all such things.
  • Escape
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    Talk to Stephen, mate.
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    fry?

    @beano:great word that Hypnagagia, brings up some excellent further reading for me too.
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    raziel once wrote..."davie's to nice for this forum"!
  • beano
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    Mate I am scared of mine. I go into proper physical lock down I can't describe it apart from the typical 'Oh I get night tremmors too' well I can describe it I can say what I said earlier, and earlier before tonight in this thread.

    My realisation is like god, if the fucker is gonna get you in your sleep then that fucker best be real because I don't believe in him and I don't believe in the literal translations of my dreams.

    Changing barrels, it all fucking up. Had nothing to do with a guy getting stabbed and the blood I witnessed. That connection is just brought on. At your most fearful of dreams, and I know it's hard just do your best to let the sensation pour over you. Take those fear put aside and let the feeling consume as best you can before you feel the need to jump out of bed, snapping out of it. Guaranteed you won't get through it all in one night but you'lll eventually get past the smothering feeling and you'll end up where you didn't expect.

    Don't let your fear exploit you davie, exploit it. Be true to yourself, you're trying to sleep because you know you want to do that and your body becauuse of the pot withdrawl wants you out of that dream and drugged up in front of the telly.

    Fuck it all off tell it you're going to bed and whatever happens in your bed or where you sleep (i liked the couch going cold tru) stays there. Because when you get up the real world matters loads more that psychoanalysis.
    "Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
    - BnB NMS review, PS4, PC
  • beano
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    Dave, don't read that shit too deep. Get some rest- or maybe you can't but yes understand. ANything like that is just nothing at the end of the day. ANything you find, about it. Will just reaffirm it's fucking nothing at the end of the day. The point is there is affinity out there when you talk to people about the process of sleep. The main point is sleep more and do more and you'll have a better constitution.

    X
    "Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
    - BnB NMS review, PS4, PC
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    your a funking gent beano.
    cheers.
    x
    psn/steam:daviedigi

    raziel once wrote..."davie's to nice for this forum"!
  • beano
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    I just want us all t be our best and have somewhere still to call home when this ol internet is bigger than we can conceive.

    I said it somewhere else on here the other week, if we're not Here to better ourselves, as selfish as it sounds then what is the point in Anything.

    I got told tonight I play devils advocate, a boaster, a deflector, a cynic. I see everything in those accusations. But what ade me cry the most was being told I don't do it in horrible way. I got a taste of my own. And I took it. And one day I'll reflect on it but in the meantime I'll keep kicking about and trying not to get in the way. As ever, sleep well brother, may your dreams bring you tidings.
    "Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
    - BnB NMS review, PS4, PC
  • Bollockoff
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    I had a night terror last week involving a 3 ft tall bird much like a pelican stalking the house while me and my dad tried to shoo it out through a window for an hour. This is pretty much what happened when a dove decided to fly into my bedroom at 6 in the morning for reals, years ago. This weird dream bird however had a second set of internal chompers like those goblin sharks or the xenomorphs from Alien.

    The bird just kept running away from us and being a nuisance but occasionally it'd savage the furniture and tear cushions up with its lightning quick extendable mouth.
  • beano
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    beano wrote:
    The point is there is affinity out there when you talk to people about the process of sleep.

    <3
    "Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
    - BnB NMS review, PS4, PC
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    beano wrote:
    I just want us all t be our best and have somewhere still to call home when this ol internet is bigger than we can conceive. I said it somewhere else on here the other week, if we're not Here to better ourselves, as selfish as it sounds then what is the point in Anything. I got told tonight I play devils advocate, a boaster, a deflector, a cynic. I see everything in those accusations. But what ade me cry the most was being told I don't do it in horrible way. I got a taste of my own. And I took it. And one day I'll reflect on it but in the meantime I'll keep kicking about and trying not to get in the way. As ever, sleep well brother, may your dreams bring you tidings.

    much <3
    psn/steam:daviedigi

    raziel once wrote..."davie's to nice for this forum"!
  • Those who mentioned seeing shadow type figures in their bedroom doorways have a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_people

    I had an experience when i was younger and wasnt asleep, until i heard about Shadow People on the Coast to Coast AM show, i never knew what it was. 20 years later it is still the most scariest experience of my life. In a class at mo but when i get home tonight i'll add my two pence to this thread...
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    I don't mean to be dismissive of that stuff dino but the human mind tends to try and make order out of things it doesn't understand or recognise, that's why we see faces in everything, and clothes piled up on a chair in a dark room can at first look like a human figure. The brain always tries to understand the visual information it is given, and if it can't it tends to make it up until you recognise what the actual object is.
  • I have experienced a "Shadow Person", I don't believe it to be anything supernatural but it is a bit beyond seeing a cast shadow wrong etc, it was much more like an actual hallucination than a misinterpretation.

    Scary as all fuck tbh, I just froze and eventually shouted myself awake but for a good 3 or 4 minutes I lay there un-able to move or shout at all. Just stared at this figure at the doorway to my room, it looked a lot like the drawing on that wiki page, the pointy ears and cone type head. I am sure it must have inspired the character design for Nosferatu.

    It was during an extremely stressful time in my life, I was having night terrors and general nightmares at the same time period, so I put it down to that.
  • I don't mean to be dismissive of that stuff dino but the human mind tends to try and make order out of things it doesn't understand or recognise, that's why we see faces in everything, and clothes piled up on a chair in a dark room can at first look like a human figure. The brain always tries to understand the visual information it is given, and if it can't it tends to make it up until you recognise what the actual object is.

    The thing is mine happen when i was awake and it was in the late evening, i wasn't in bed or anything. I didnt believe in that stuff till it happen to me, trust me when your 7 years old and standing in front of this thing (it was beyond black in color) its just terrifying. It happen at a mates house, we got to the top of the stairs and we both saw it..a shadow came off the wall and stood infront of us, it was completely black in the siloette of a man with a hood draped on him, no eyes, no mouth, nothing but pure black (you couldnt see through it and it didnt have any depth). I don't remember much after that apart from me and my mate falling down the stairs in shock. I refused to go to his house for six months after that and never had a sleepover at his again.

    I don't mind if people don't believe me or say it was in our heads. Correct me if i'm wrong but children's brain's work at a different Mhz (frequency) until they hit puberty hence people say kids see things adults can't. There maybe more to the world than just black and white...
  • beano
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    Scientists went mad trying to percieve the 20Nth dimensions. Talk of polygons forming in mid air and such. Practically killed string theory. I've no idea if there's much truth in it but I've always thought if we could possibly train our brains to see the very small and apply that to what's around us then we'd see such waves.
    "Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
    - BnB NMS review, PS4, PC
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    The other night I dreamt I got shot five times in the stomach.  I was in the middle of a job at work and was determined to finish what I was doing.  After that I went home and changed out of my bloody clothes before going to the hospital.  Well 'ard, I am.
    Get schwifty.
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    From behind New Scientist's paywall.
    Sleep and dreaming: Why can't we stay awake 24/7?

    From fruit flies to dolphins, every creature needs its shut-eye. Why we sleep is one of the biggest mysteries in biology, though the clues lie in the brain

    WE SPEND about a third of our life doing it. If deprived of it for too long we get physically ill. So it's puzzling that we still don't really know why it is that we sleep.

    On the face of it the answer seems obvious: so that our brains and bodies can rest and recuperate. But why not rest while conscious, so that we can also watch out for threats? And if recuperation means things are being repaired, why can't that take place while we are awake?

    Scientists who study how animals eat, learn or mate are unburdened by questions about the purpose of these activities. But for sleep researchers the big "Why?" is maddeningly mysterious.

    Sleep is such a widespread phenomenon that it must be doing something useful. Even fruit flies and nematode worms experience periods of inactivity from which they are less easily roused, suggesting sleep is a requirement of the simplest of animals.

    But surveying the animal kingdom reveals no clear correlation between sleep habits and some obvious physiological need. In fact there is bewildering diversity in sleep patterns.

    Some bats spend 20 hours a day slumbering, while large grazing mammals tend to sleep for less than 4 hours a day. Horses, for instance, take naps on their feet for a few minutes at a time, totalling only about 3 hours daily. In some dolphins and whales, newborns and their mothers stay awake for the entire month following birth.

    All this variation is vexing to those hoping to discover a single, universal function of sleep. "Bodily changes in sleep vary tremendously across species," says Marcos Frank at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. "But in all animals studied so far, the [brain] is always affected by sleep."

    So most sleep researchers now focus on the brain. The most obvious feature of sleep, after all, is that consciousness is either lost, or at least, in some animals, reduced. And lack of sleep leads to cognitive decline, not only in humans, but also rats, fruit flies and pretty much every other species studied.

    Much of our slumber is spent in slow-wave sleep, also known as stage 3 or deep sleep (see diagram), during which there are easily detectable waves of electrical activity across the whole brain, caused by neurons firing in synchrony about once a second. This is interspersed with other phases, including rapid-eye-movement sleep, where brain activity resembles that seen during wakefulness, and transitional stages between the two states.

    It is slow-wave sleep that is generally thought to do whatever it is that sleep actually does. As well as appearing to be the most different to the brain's waking activity, the waves are larger at the beginning of sleep, when sleep need is presumably greatest, and then gradually reduce. And if you go without sleep for longer than usual, these slow waves are larger when you do eventually nod off.

    Explanations for sleep fall into two broad groups: those related to brain repair or maintenance, and those in which the sleeping brain is thought to perform some unique, active function. There has been speculation over the maintenance angle for over a century. It was once a fashionable idea that some kind of toxin built up in the brain during our waking hours which, when it reached a certain level, made sleep irresistible. Such a substance has never been found, but a modern version of the maintenance hypothesis says that during the day we deplete supplies of large molecules essential for the operation of the brain, including proteins, RNA and cholesterol, and that these are replenished during sleep. It has been found in animals that production of such macromolecules increases during slow-wave sleep, although critics point out that the figures show a mere correlation, not that levels of these molecules control sleep.

    The unique function school of thought also has a long pedigree. Sigmund Freud proposed that the purpose of sleep was wish fulfilment during dreaming, although scientific support for this notion failed to materialise.

    There is good evidence, however, for sleep mediating a different kind of brain function - memory consolidation. Memories are not written in stone the instant an event is experienced. Instead, initially labile traces are held as short-term memories, before the most relevant aspects of the experience are transferred to long-term storage.

    Action replay

    Several kinds of experiment, in animals and people, show that stronger memories form when sleep takes place between learning and recall. Some of the most compelling support for this idea came when electrodes placed into rats' brains showed small clusters of neurons "replaying" patterns of activity during sleep that had first been generated while the rats had been awake and exploring. "Memory representations are reactivated during sleep," says Jan Born at the University of Tübingen in Germany.

    Many labs remain focused on how memory systems are updated during sleep, but since 2003 a new idea has been gaining traction. It straddles both categories of theory, concerned as it is with neuronal maintenance and memory processing.

    The hypothesis concerns synapses, the junctions between neurons through which they communicate. We know that when we form new memories, the synapses of the neurons involved become stronger. The idea is that while awake we are constantly forming new memories and therefore strengthening synapses. But this strengthening cannot go on indefinitely: it would be too expensive in terms of energy, and eventually there would be no way of forming new memories as our synapses would become "maxed-out".

    The proposed solution is slow-wave sleep. In the absence of any appreciable external input, the slow cycles of neuronal firing gradually lower synaptic strength across the board, while maintaining the relative differences in strength between synapses, so that new memories are retained (see diagram).

    There is now much evidence to support what is known as the "synaptic homeostasis hypothesis". In humans, brain scans show that our grey matter uses more energy at the end of the waking day than at the start. Giulio Tononi and Chiara Cirelli of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, who proposed the hypothesis, have shown that in rodents and fruit flies, synaptic strength increases during wakefulness and falls during sleep. The pair have also shown that when people learn a task that uses a specific part of the brain, that part generates more intense slow waves during subsequent sleep. This kind of downscaling is best done "offline", says Tononi. "You can activate your brain in all kinds of ways, because you don't need to behave or learn."

    Synaptic homeostasis has not won over everyone, but it is certainly getting a great deal of attention. It is, says Jan Born, "currently the most influential [theory] among sleep researchers". Frank, however, would like Tononi and Cirelli to provide more detail about mechanisms.

    Neither is Jerry Siegel convinced. A neuroscientist at the University of California, Los Angeles, Siegel is sticking with his provocative theory that sleep is simply an adaptive way of saving energy when not doing essential things, such as foraging or breeding, which are in fact more dangerous than napping someplace safe. For Siegel, sleep habits reflect the variety of animal lifestyles, with different species sleeping for different purposes.

    It's certainly possible that a phenomenon as complex as sleep performs a multitude of functions, agrees Jim Horne, who studies the impact of sleep loss on health at Loughborough University, UK. And, given the complexity of the human brain, our sleep may well be among the most complicated of all.

    Perhaps then it should be no surprise that theories of sleep function are so diverse. Fathoming whether the big "Why?" of sleep will yield a single, succinct solution or require myriad answers is likely to keep biologists up at night for a little while yet.

    Liam Drew is a neuroscientist at Columbia University in New York
    "Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
    - BnB NMS review, PS4, PC
  • I had a dream the other night that caused me to stay awake for the rest of the night.
    I dreamt my dad had died, that my wife knew, but had decided it best to not tell me.
    Was weird, and I harboured a hatred for my wife the entire time I was awake as it was one of those where you couldn't be sure if it was actually true or not.
    Town name: Downton - Name: Nick - Native Fruit: Apples
  • Sounds like the classic man asking his wife why she's angry with him and she replies that she dreamt he cheated on her.
    [quote=Skerret]Unless someone very obviously insults your loved ones with intent, take nothing here seriously.[/quote]
  • Throughout my teens I had occasional night terrors. They were bad for me but worse for people who were with me. I would sleepwalk at the same time and sometimes be semi-conscious of what was talking place. Like a very very bad roller coaster ride. Trapped inside my body as a passenger but feeling everything personally. 1st and 3rd person simultaneously. I would feel the strongest most horrorific ranges of emotions possible: pain, terror, guilt, sadness, anger panic. Lots and lots of panic. All my negative emotions would be turned up to 11 and I would be acting it out. Screaming and raging one second and floods of tears the next. Hitting out and trashing furniture sometimes as well. I could never explain why afterwards which was hard for friends and family to understand. I wasn't scared of a monster or any boogeyman, it was simply fear for fears' sake. I've never felt anything close to it since and I hope I never do.
  • Beano@ thats an interesting article, im in the camp thats its a brian repair thing. BTW, how amazing would it be if you could record your dreams and watch them back on a tv / computer?

    Quick question for people in general, how many manage to lucid dream? Also can you lucid dream in a nightmare? Or is that not possible?

    The rare occasions i've managed to lucid dream, i've loved doing the superman thing i.e. flying
  • I had a nightmare whilst also being awake when i was about 13. Can't make sense of it at all, but i remember it perfectly. Fell asleep watching a crack of light at the corner of my door, except at the same time i wasn't really asleep at all. Suddenly everything went crazy. Was seeing all sorts of weird stuff around the room. Everything was getting bigger and smaller at the same time (yes i know that doesn't make sense), and an intense, overpowering depression fell over every aspect of my brain activity. The closest thing i can liken it to was a very, very bad trip. In the end i decided to kill myself, despite my parents trying to talk me out of it. Then, when i went outside in the garden- presumably to kill myself- the cold air snapped me out of it completely and suddenly i felt totally fine again.
  • Dinostar77 wrote:
    how many manage to lucid dream? Also can you lucid dream in a nightmare? Or is that not possible?

    I've had loads of lucid dreams. I get them most when i'm stressed or particularly bothered about some aspect in my life (exams, girlfriend trouble etc). 

    Don't know if i've ever had it during a nightmare. I guess as soon as i realised it was just a nightmare it would stop being a nightmare and just becomes like any other dream.
  • Speaking of nightmares, had one last night, though it wasn't a nightmare as such that i woke up in a cold sweat or anything. Just a aspect of a dream that reoccurs every so often for many years now but has a negative aspect hence does that conform to being a nightmare?

    Whatever the scenario if i find myself driving a car, every time without fail, the brakes won't work or are really bad, steering can also be abit ropey but i put that down to trying to corner without being able to sufficiently slow the car down.

    No-one gets killed but its a distressing part of the dream. Haven't a clue if it has meaning or not, or what it could represent.
  • GooberTheHat
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    I have had almost lucid dreams, I can't exactly control them but I am aware I am dreaming and if something happens that I don't like then I can kind of rewind them and try it again to get a better result.
  • GooberTheHat
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    @dinostar77 and @liveinadive, I didn't realise they were waking nightmares in the way you described them after my post. They do sound horrifying and my previous explanation doesn't really fit the bill.
  • Dinostar77 wrote:
    Whatever the scenario if i find myself driving a car, every time without fail, the brakes won't work or are really bad, steering can also be abit ropey but i put that down to trying to corner without being able to sufficiently slow the car down.

    No-one gets killed but its a distressing part of the dream. Haven't a clue if it has meaning or not, or what it could represent.

    I have the same recurring theme to my dreams. Every so often I'm driving, sometimes my own car, sometimes my family's, and the brakes just won't work. I'm never travelling fast but I just don't wanna wreck the car, especially if it's not mine.

    Teeth falling out is another one but I'm sure most people get that.
  • Paul the sparky
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    I get both of those.
  • Dinostar77 wrote:
    Whatever the scenario if i find myself driving a car, every time without fail, the brakes won't work or are really bad, steering can also be abit ropey but i put that down to trying to corner without being able to sufficiently slow the car down. No-one gets killed but its a distressing part of the dream. Haven't a clue if it has meaning or not, or what it could represent.
    I have the same recurring theme to my dreams. Every so often I'm driving, sometimes my own car, sometimes my family's, and the brakes just won't work. I'm never travelling fast but I just don't wanna wreck the car, especially if it's not mine. Teeth falling out is another one but I'm sure most people get that.

    I have had those too, same time as the shadow person night terror things.
    Supposedly they represent being anxious about being out of control of your life, fits the bill with me as I had just finished Uni but couldn't get a job plus had just finished a relationship (been dumped).
  • beano
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    G'damn it.

    Lucid dreams I can't control. Figures. Sensation of suffocation. I just want sleep.
    "Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
    - BnB NMS review, PS4, PC
  • Skerret
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    Last night I dreamed of a man being held down with a bear trap on a stovetop which then had all burners lit and he had his arms and legs burned off.  It was pretty horrible.
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz

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