@escape re: property Yes, you'd assume so. I think the prospect and flaunting of the mega-rich has hoodwinked a lot of people, and the property market is also a big factor in not feeling rich. Ignoring the fact you will earn after tax more in a month than many will earn in half a year, how can you be confortable unless you're able to build your own house on Grand Designs?

Tempy wrote:

more likely to get ill from stress related reasons

But surely a universal reduction in living costs is paramount here? Not more money for the few at the expense — via them sustaining unaffordable living — of the many.

poprock wrote:

Tempy wrote:

Which begs the question, if only the 10th percentile earn that much, will these people ever be happy?

No, of course not.

In financial terms, I genuinely reckon that happiness is tied to disposable income – which is a factor of earnings vs expenses caused by your life choices.

We’ve all been brought up in a predominantly capitalist culture which is based on aspiration – or living above your means. It’s the base reason that most people are less than 100% happy.

It's a damn shame.

cockbeard wrote:

...
It's economically viable (even with our massively overpriced rail system) to live 120 miles away in the Midlands and commute to work. That's a crazy situation, utterly ridiculous

I know a few peeps who live Coventry, Leam Spa, Warwick etc that commute to London every day - plenty from Leicestershire where I'm at as well.

70k is plenty to start chipping in more to help out those less well off.

Tempy wrote:

@escape re: property Yes, you'd assume so. I think the prospect and flaunting of the mega-rich has hoodwinked a lot of people, and the property market is also a big factor in not feeling rich. Ignoring the fact you will earn after tax more in a month than many will earn in half a year, how can you be confortable unless you're able to build your own house on Grand Designs?

Forget building a house, affording one is out of the reach of the vast majority in London.

mistercrayon wrote:

25k pension is decent in the context of zero mortgage but potentially terrifying in the context of needing to rent in London I suspect.

FWIW, housing benefit should still be a thing for pensioners.

Escape wrote:

cockbeard wrote:

I'm pretty certain that the dole would get you more than that in six months

Not these days.

Even when you factor in Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit, free dental care and prescriptions?

I know the last two should be free for everyone, but the bottom line of saying the Dole is £64.50 a week (or whatever it is nowadays) looks small to people who work so they don't feel that they are subsiding the poor, yet in reality many folk have to feed and clothe themselves for less than that a week

I'm not saying the dole is too high, before I'm accused of taking the crusts from the mouths of the needy

cockbeard wrote:

Tempy wrote:

Yes, you'd assume so. I think the prospect and flaunting of the mega-rich has hoodwinked a lot of people, and the property market is also a big factor in not feeling rich. Ignoring the fact you will earn after tax more in a month than many will earn in half a year, how can you be confortable unless you're able to build your own house on Grand Designs?

70k is around £4k a month, who are the many that don't earn that in six months?

And who is stitching them up, I'm pretty certain that the dole would get you more than that in six months

Well dante was barely on any more than that. When i first started working at The Tech Guys I was on £10.5k before tax and NI.

Also, @Yossarian, most housing associations now demand direct payment of Local Housing Allowance.

Finding somewhere to rent when you're in receipt of benefits is already exceptionally hard, so you'd be removing a lifeline from thousands if you scrapped LHA.

cockbeard wrote:

Escape wrote:

cockbeard wrote:

I'm pretty certain that the dole would get you more than that in six months

Not these days.

Even when you factor in Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit, free dental care and prescriptions?

If you've no kids and can't get ESA, top-rate JSA's £1900 over six months. But it's not easy to stay on it for that long without a workfare requirement, and ESA claimants are reviewed every few months at present. LHA in my region goes up to around £100 per week, and that's about the average. Automatically paid-for prescriptions are a thing of the past unless you're a pensioner, but some ESA claimants can fill in a form to reclaim their examination costs.

So in the South West, LHA and JSA over six months is about £4500.

I understand that upkeep on a stately home is expensive.

£70k ain't rich but it's (outside London) very comfortable. You will feel the pinch when trying to live a rich persons life on that income - big house, nice car, expensive foreign holidays and private school fees. Inside London, it probably feels about normal and I doubt there's much give in your finances.

It's all relative though innit.

Normal as in your house isn't a box in a shit part of town, you can cover all your expenses, have some savings and you don't feel stretched. It 'feels' normal. I'm only guessing though.
Although I'm talking more about household income here. A couple earning 70k each is different.

Escape wrote:

Also, @Yossarian, most housing associations now demand direct payment of Local Housing Allowance. Finding somewhere to rent when you're in receipt of benefits is already exceptionally hard, so you'd be removing a lifeline from thousands if you scrapped LHA.

cockbeard wrote:

Escape wrote:

cockbeard wrote:

I'm pretty certain that the dole would get you more than that in six months

Not these days.

Even when you factor in Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit, free dental care and prescriptions?

If you've no kids and can't get ESA, top-rate JSA's £1900 over six months. But it's not easy to stay on it for that long without a workfare requirement, and ESA claimants are reviewed every few months at present. LHA in my region goes up to around £100 per week, and that's about the average. Automatically paid-for prescriptions are a thing of the past unless you're a pensioner, but some ESA claimants can fill in a form to reclaim their examination costs. So in the South West, LHA and JSA over six months is about £4500.

Wowsers, that kinda surprises me, though at the same time I don't really 'feel' much better off now than I did when on the rock 'n' roll, but I guess we adapt to our surroundings pretty quickly

I'm unfortunately not surprised that the average allowance of £100 is also the highest one allowed, nor that housing associations demand direct payment. It's little to do with people not paying their rent, and as much about how Housing Benefit skews the market in the favour of landlords/housing associations being able to set a false minimum rent based not on what the upkeep/maintenance/costs of a property but on what they can get straight from the council

Cocko wrote:

Housing Benefit skews the market in the favour of landlords/housing associations being able to set a false minimum rent based not on what the upkeep/maintenance/costs of a property but on what they can get straight from the council

This isn't the first time that you've claimed this. Do you have any evidence at all that it's true?

Yossarian wrote:

Cocko wrote:

Housing Benefit skews the market in the favour of landlords/housing associations being able to set a false minimum rent based not on what the upkeep/maintenance/costs of a property but on what they can get straight from the council

This isn't the first time that you've claimed this. Do you have any evidence at all that it's true?

FFS

I'm not saying don't help people to fund housing

I'm saying by paying direct to the landlord they get to price rig. By paying the amount direct to the claimant you create a competitive market where rents have to adjust accordingly to market conditions

Yes you run the risk of people not paying their rent, but those people need different help in the form of education and training in independent living anyway

If you can't see how our current system of HB creates a cartel (which in many places prices working folk out of the market) then I don't know what to say, either you're being contrary or have a big blind spot, because I know you're more than intelligent enough to get there

So Housing Benefit gets payed directly to the landlord? I didn’t know that. I claimed it for a while back in ’99 and in those days it came to me, not my landlord.