Scottish Independence: #IndyRef2 - The Bear and Badger

Kow

The government in the republic had never has to worry about the economy of the north, so they wouldn't know.

Yossarian

Lord_Griff wrote:

It would be great place to start Yoss' and EC's society experiment. Get independence and then as you'll have a subsistance economy you can eradicate money..... And chairs.... And have one guy making battered Mars bars 2 days a week.

Diluted Dante wrote:

They'd make them for fun on the other 5.

It actually depresses me that generally intelligent people can be so closed-minded about the possibility of alternatives to our current, deeply fucked society that all they can offer is ridicule towards the ideas of others.

Seriously, what's the fucking point?

Mod74

Most of us didn't ridicule your ideas. They were explored in what amounts to a fair amount of depth.

Yossarian

No, I know that. Still, this stuff does get to me.

Brooks

Should be eradicating borders not establishing more.

beano

That made me giggle.

Will Scot's be able to hit their women harder after independence? (JOKE!)

Lord_Griff

Yossarian wrote:

Lord_Griff wrote:

It would be great place to start Yoss' and EC's society experiment. Get independence and then as you'll have a subsistance economy you can eradicate money..... And chairs.... And have one guy making battered Mars bars 2 days a week.

Diluted Dante wrote:

They'd make them for fun on the other 5.

It actually depresses me that generally intelligent people can be so closed-minded about the possibility of alternatives to our current, deeply fucked society that all they can offer is ridicule towards the ideas of others.

Seriously, what's the fucking point?

BOOM, headshot.

Yossarian

*sigh*

Elmlea

GooberTheHat wrote:

What happens to the military?

If you're originally Scottish, you'll apparently be allowed to transfer free of charge to any new, independent Scottish armed forces. From an aviator's point of view that's interesting; I know a lot of Scottish ex-Nimrod guys who'd love to go fly some sort of maritime patrol aircraft from a Scottish Air Force. Personally, as a fighter person, an independent Scotland would have a responsibility for a large NATO air policing area, so would have to either pay for the RAF to continue providing a Quick Reaction Alert facility or generate one of their own. If they bought a bunch of cheap F16s or the suchlike there's definitely scope for it being an astonishingly interesting job for people to go and do, so I'd be slightly tempted.

The rest of it strikes me as a bit crap really. Seems mostly like rhetoric from Salmond designed to capture the angry, tattooed character in your dodgy east end Glasgow bar screaming "fuck the English!" If he votes, he wins, and goes down in history as the first Scottish President. If he loses, he tried, and wins permanent support.

I think the degree of duplication would be insanely expensive, and he's on a good thing right now providing free prescriptions/university education/etc. The cost of setting up, from scratch, a Scottish DVLA? A Scottish customs office? I see that cutting corporation tax to a tiny level and filling Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen up with rich banks and the suchlike would be an option, turning Scotland into a more northern Luxembourg, but I'm unconvinced until I see an actual manifesto with a real plan and science in it.

Realistically though it's a politically savvy move from an extremely intelligent man. Try it, fail, and set yourself up for life.

Lord_Griff

Yossarian wrote:

*sigh*

T'was gentle ribbing.

regmcfly

Elms got it.

Brooks

Aye that's the more compelling analysis.

mk64

so what happens if..

If they go independent and it all goes tits up?

Diluted Dante

Yossarian wrote:

Lord_Griff wrote:

It would be great place to start Yoss' and EC's society experiment. Get independence and then as you'll have a subsistance economy you can eradicate money..... And chairs.... And have one guy making battered Mars bars 2 days a week.

Diluted Dante wrote:

They'd make them for fun on the other 5.

It actually depresses me that generally intelligent people can be so closed-minded about the possibility of alternatives to our current, deeply fucked society that all they can offer is ridicule towards the ideas of others. Seriously, what's the fucking point?

I don't know what you're reading into it, but I was just making a joke about Scottish people loving battered mars bars.

Diluted Dante

mk64 wrote:

so what happens if.. If they go independent and it all goes tits up?

We invade.

I_R

Elmlea wrote:

If he votes, he wins, and goes down in history as the first Scottish President.

The Queen would still be head of state.

WorKid

As she is in Australia.

Hulka T

Yeah I found his response to the questions about currency quite enlightening, 'those are issues for after the vote'? Surely the financial implications of such a major decision is something to be taken into consideration. And his response of it been 'sabre rattling' was fairly nonsical considering it appears to be his entire campaign process.
Personally, I think it would be in Scotlands interest to stay in, they do pretty well out of the deal.

g.man

Diluted Dante wrote:

mk64 wrote:

so what happens if.. If they go independent and it all goes tits up?

We invade.

Good luck with that.

yup

g.man

I_R

People think we could be well run, well adjusted socialists, like the Scandinavians. It's enticing and getting rid of the London influence would be nice, but we'd also need to take back all our politicians. It would be interesting anyway, in the scary sense.

beano

Getting rid of London would be nice, maybe it's Northern independence that's needed?

beano

I'm serious FYI.

Mod74

Surely "become Scandinavian" is a big ask.

You get the impression Salmond wants to be Venezuelan not Scandinavian.

I_R

Mod74 wrote:

Surely "become Scandinavian" is a big ask. You get the impression Salmond wants to be Venezuelan not Scandinavian.

Off to New York every year flogging tartan to the yanks and wants to stay in NATO, it's hardly a PLA base on the Clyde, even if they did send us a panda.

And yes, achieving the Scandinavian model is the tricky bit. It might actually be easier with more devolution rather than independence, that's more realistic anyway.

Mod74

I was thinking more the "Friend of the Little Man" cult of personality stuff.

I_R

I'm not really seeing that anywhere Mod, post examples.

Mod74

It's just the impression I get. Oil/gas funded socialist nirvana wrapped up in national pride/history/revenge rhetoric.

I_R

They do a good job of staying quiet about the Jacobite stuff, although I'd imagine there's still a fair bit of it under the surface. There's definitely was a hard left element of the SNP, but you tend not to hear much about them any more.

In theory, an independent Scotland would be centre left, with much less interest in being a world power than the UK currently has. Their problem is that no one could define how we'd get there after independence. You could end up with both the SNP and Labour splintering into dozens of left of centre parties, some with regional agendas, and we'd go nowhere.

Frosty

I honestly don't know how I'm going to vote. I used to be dead against it and salmond in general but this tory government has really started to send me the other way.

It could even be fun.

Tempy

Guys if I am living in Scotland and you become independent do I then become some kind of political prisoner thanks in advance

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