Scottish Independence: #IndyRef2
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Andy wrote:In a principality, the highest ranking monarch is a prince. The highest reigning monarch of Wales is the Queen. Having a Prince of Wales doesn't make it a principality, although that position is a hangover from when parts of Wales were a principality.
Ahh, makes sense, cheers
Would be a weird country that wasn't allowed an authority than a Prince, must be due to an oppressive neighbour who didn't want them to have the legitimacy/identity a King might bring. By having a higher rank next door, it reinforces the literal national subservience"I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B -
HawBawJaws wrote:Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I thought the Union of the parliaments and the Union of the crowns were 2 separate things? In 2014 the plan was to keep Betty as head of state, it's just the act of Union we want independence from, isn't it? (I couldn't care less about the royals either way tbh.)
Well... yes and no. In 1603, when Elizabeth I died, James VI of Scotland (son of Mary, Queen of Scots) was heir to the throne of England, by virtue of being the great-great-grandson of Henry VII. So he became James VI and I. He moved his royal court down to London. Although described as 'the union of the crowns' it was legally two crowns resting on his head; hence why he was VI and I, although it would now be impossible for them to ever split paths (unless a monarch abdicated from one but not the other, and then heirs an monarch died in particular orders).
A century later, the 'Acts of Union' were passed by England in 1706 and Scotland in 1707. Those acts created the Kingdom of Great Britain; one kingdom, one crown, one country, one parliament. The monarch was more involved in government then, so you wouldn't have drawn the distinction between crown and parliament then in the same way that you would now.
But, yes, the plan was that an independent Scotland would be a monarchy with Elizabeth II as queen. -
Well, think it's fair to say indyref2 is off the table for now.
One day.......... -
No, we're going to declare independence from Scotland so you can keep the Tories.
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HawBawJaws wrote:Well, think it's fair to say indyref2 is off the table for now. One day..........
No one wants it..The Forum Herald™ -
There's still a chance the Tories will fuck brexit up so drastically that we'll bail out the union.
Boris Johnson will have a hand in brexit, so it's a distinct possibility........ -
They outta to give the English a vote so we can fuck the scrounging scots and taffies offThe Forum Herald™
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NotSureIfSerious.gif -
Certainly looks like it's over for a good while. Not sure what has put people off. The thought of more tory governments or a hard brexit should really have strengthened things. Maybe the uncertainty of independence after brexit was the big factor.
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poprock wrote:NotSureIfSerious.gif
Probably. Maybot malfunctioning has triggered the poor lad I think. -
TBF, it normally takes less than that, the man's on a hair trigger. -
This x 1,000,000.Matt_82 wrote:Maybe the uncertainty of independence after brexit was the big factor.
Nobody in their right mind wants an uncosted indyref2 before the UK Brexit negotiations have even happened. That's turkeys voting for Christmas.
Last indyref was a clusterfuck of vague promises based on how the Scottish Oil Industry would sustain us. Within a year of that vote, that industry had virtually collapsed.
I'm not opposed to the idea of independence, but unless someone shows me a well costed plan of how they'd propose to make it work (which didn't happen the first time), then I'm not biting.Come with g if you want to live... -
Proclaimers royalties will make up a small, but statistically significant proportion of your GDP.
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But as much as I take the piss, I'm genuinely pleased that Scotland is remaining part of the union. This country wouldn't be the same without you.
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I Would Walk 500 Miles will be popular with those who now have a Tory.
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g.man wrote:
This x 1,000,000. Nobody in their right mind wants an uncosted indyref2 before the UK Brexit negotiations have even happened. That's turkeys voting for Christmas. Last indyref was a clusterfuck of vague promises based on how the Scottish Oil Industry would sustain us. Within a year of that vote, that industry had virtually collapsed. I'm not opposed to the idea of independence, but unless someone shows me a well costed plan of how they'd propose to make it work (which didn't happen the first time), then I'm not biting.Matt_82 wrote:Maybe the uncertainty of independence after brexit was the big factor.
But that was the same problem with Brexit.. a lot of shit was talked... people fell off it.. now we're in this mess. Never let the population vote for anything important.The Forum Herald™ -
Bob wrote:Never let the population vote for anything important.
I’m with you on that.
I mean, look at Boaty McBoatface for fuck’s sake. -
If anyone is interested in personal opinions, I'm still pro Scottish Independence, but I don't think IndyRef2 is a good idea right now. Getting it in before Brexit and never leaving the EU was a pipe dream.
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Andy wrote:If anyone is interested in personal opinions, I'm still pro Scottish Independence, but I don't think IndyRef2 is a good idea right now. Getting it in before Brexit and never leaving the EU was a pipe dream.
Out of interest how do you think things would be better for an independent Scotland.?The Forum Herald™ -
I think we'd have more Labour governments than Tory ones. I think, as it is generally a more socialist country, we'd have a fairer society that took better care of its old, young, poor and sick. I think we'd have a better relationship with Europe. I think we'd make a better stab at converting to (and selling) renewable energy. I think we could get out education system back on track as the envy of the whole world.
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I would like all of those things for the whole UK please, whether Scotland stays part of it or not. That would be ideal. Harder to achieve, I admit.
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Andy wrote:If anyone is interested in personal opinions, I'm still pro Scottish Independence, but I don't think IndyRef2 is a good idea right now. Getting it in before Brexit and never leaving the EU was a pipe dream.
I don't recall the EU ever stating that you could automatically join the EU if you'd got independence first time around, but maybe it just wasn't publicised as much down here"I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B -
It's probably worth saying, I'd like Scotland to have a better relationship with England. I just think that, like Bruce Willis and Demi Moore, we'd maybe get on better if we weren't actually married.
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cockbeard wrote:Andy wrote:If anyone is interested in personal opinions, I'm still pro Scottish Independence, but I don't think IndyRef2 is a good idea right now. Getting it in before Brexit and never leaving the EU was a pipe dream.
I don't recall the EU ever stating that you could automatically join the EU if you'd got independence first time around, but maybe it just wasn't publicised as much down here
They didn't, but the point was being argued on both sides. -
poprock wrote:I would like all of those things for the whole UK please.
Me too. -
Last night a good step towards that, but the momentum needs to keep going.
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