Scottish Independence: #IndyRef2
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Diluted Dante wrote:That's a fair point. EU citizens would be able to stay in Scotland if they went it alone. They should have a vote.
You're assuming that the UK government would remove EU citizens (it probably won't) and that the newly-independent Scottish government wouldn't (who knows?).
I hope the Scots vote to leave and eventually join the EU again... and I think they have a better chance of a Yes after it's clear what a shit job May Johnson and Davis have done getting the UK out. -
The SNP called for a guarantee for EU citizens to be able to stay. Scotland needs immigration. Chances of this not being a thing are about as high as Messi declaring he will sign for Newcastle next season.
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May won't commit to EU citizens in the UK until the EU commit to UK citizens in Europe.
Both negotiation cards cancel each other out but it needs to wait for formal negotiations to begin. If May commits to EU citizens now then the UK have to use another card to secure the rights of UK citizens in Europe.
It is horrible game playing with people's lives and I feel for those caught up in it, but it is politics being played on both sides. -
Liveinadive wrote:May won't commit to EU citizens in the UK until the EU commit to UK citizens in Europe. Both negotiation cards cancel each other out but it needs to wait for formal negotiations to begin. If May commits to EU citizens now then the UK have to use another card to secure the rights of UK citizens in Europe. It is horrible game playing with people's lives and I feel for those caught up in it, but it is politics being played on both sides.
The fact that there is even a need for a discussion is disgusting.
This should be guaranteed by the UK govt upfront. They picked this fight.Wind Waker is a bad game -
That is just bad negotiations though.
Both groups of people will be allowed to stay.
If we guarantee it before negotiations we stand to lose something else needlessly. -
kneecap wrote:
The fact that there is even a need for a discussion is disgusting. This should be guaranteed by the UK govt upfront. They picked this fight.Liveinadive wrote:May won't commit to EU citizens in the UK until the EU commit to UK citizens in Europe. Both negotiation cards cancel each other out but it needs to wait for formal negotiations to begin. If May commits to EU citizens now then the UK have to use another card to secure the rights of UK citizens in Europe. It is horrible game playing with people's lives and I feel for those caught up in it, but it is politics being played on both sides.
There's an easy answer here, which would have appeased the right, addressed the worries about the ease of getting EU citizenship and meant that freedom of movement was still possible
Grandfather rule, if the person can prove that grandparents were born in a territory that is now an EU member state, then movement is free. If you've rocked up to Romania and bought a passport not so much. No it's not ideal and no it's not full freedom of movement for all citizens, but it certainly adheres to the spirit of inter EU freedom of movement, and allays the right wing fears of Africans and Arabs (OH NO) going up dale and down vale on this green and pleasant land"I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B -
Liveinadive wrote:That is just bad negotiations though.
Both groups of people will be allowed to stay.
If we guarantee it before negotiations we stand to lose something else needlessly.
Unless the EU simply decides to not be a dick about it either, certainly possible if we made the first move. -
We don't need Messi, bloody foreigners.
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The EU won't say anything until negotiations start.
This is what negotiations are for, starting negotiations through the press could be disastrous.
These are complex decisions that will mould our country for generations, they need to be done properly, not just say something and hope the EU do the same. This isn't about being a dick or picking fights it is about doing things by the proper process.
There is also much more to discuss than "Yeah they can stay". Tax, citizenship applications, access to the NHS etc etc all need to be confirmed properrly -
Actually it's pretty easy, all of this stuff exists already, just say that whatever happens, all EU citizens in the U.K. will be given indefinite leave to remain and done.
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WorKid wrote:...and that the newly-independent Scottish government wouldn't (who knows?)
The SNPs stance has always been that anyone here already is welcome to stay here, and more are welcome to come. I don't see any party saying anything different doing sufficiently well in Scotland to form a government. -
I see they've reanimated gordon brown.
Bit early in the game for that isn't it? -
ALways felt GB got a raw deal. Mind how he called a woman who was a racist a "racist" and then we got Cameron
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Yeah, me too. The stuff about that letter he wrote to the mother of the soldier who had been killed was horrendous.
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Unfortunately it was far too easy to pin an economic crash on the guy who was in charge of the economy at the time.
We know that to he factually wrong, but when does that hold the right back? -
I thought Brown was a competent PM. Never quite understood why he attracted so much vitriol. Also thought his brother did a decent job running our City Council. -
He probably meant it, unlike others, and insisted on using his handwriting. GB definitely had a raw deal from the media. I have a friend (ex friend now, pro brexit pro trump MRA meant I ditched him) who didn't even hide that he hates him because he was Scottish. One eyed Scot. I'd vote yes to independence if i was Scottish tbh, to be rid of this kind of nonsenseYossarian wrote:Yeah, me too. The stuff about that letter he wrote to the mother of the soldier who had been killed was horrendous.
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Yeah, it's not popular to say it, and I can understand her being upset, but the woman he was writing to should have given her head a wobble. She was offended because a handwritten letter contained spelling mistakes, and reckoned he should have typed it?
Handwritten shows that he spent the time to do it himself, not got the intern to knock it up and squiggled his name at the bottom. -
On facebook, having to explain to people why a campaign website domain being registered to a domain registry company for domain secrecy is not evidence of an English conspiracy to doctor the referendum result. And so it all begins again.
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I think this time around, the 'debate' is going to be far, far worse than any of us can predict or comprehend.Gamertag: gremill -
Scotland should argue that if they leave, they can get their sovereignty back.
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Diluted Dante wrote:Scotland should argue that if they leave, they can get their sovereign ring back from Cash Converters.
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Liveinadive wrote:Diluted Dante wrote:Scotland should argue that if they leave, they can get their sovereign ring back from Big Tam down the Barras.
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Diluted Dante wrote:Scotland should argue that if they leave, they can get their sovereignty back.
They should hire the red bus and have some mesage about the funds for their own NHS instead."Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." ― Terry Pratchett -
Also do it because it would trigger the need to redo the Australian flag and constitutional definition of our head of state."Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." ― Terry Pratchett
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I thought the constitution didn't define who the head of state is...
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IANAL.
I googles it and it tells me we also have an Act that extends the HoS role to the queen and her successors in the sovereignty of the United Kingdom.
If Scotland leave the UK, is there still a UK? Is the UK defined by its incorporation of Scotland?
It defines us as being a Federal Commonwealth under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
So I guess it hinges on what lizzy remains queen of?"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." ― Terry Pratchett -
An yeah our constitution does define it. In both the Act and the document itself which lists legislative power in order from the queen, a senate, house of reps and a governor general."Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." ― Terry Pratchett
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Chapter 2 Section 61. Executive power is the one."Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." ― Terry Pratchett
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