beano wrote:

Getting rid of London would be nice, maybe it's Northern independence that's needed?

Ha, good luck with that.

My sentiments to the yes campaign, Yosser.

This is a promo video from the Yes campaign that covers some of the questions asked in this thread. The No campaign keep getting it banned from You Tube. Copyright reasons or something.



I'm still weighing up the options. The No campaigners seem to be a bunch of dicks though.

I'd have that video banned from YouTube on the grounds that it's full of absolute bullshit. Brainless, unsubstantiated rhetoric targeted at the youf vote. 

God help us

g.man

Hello stranger.

Adkm's point 2 is pretty fundamental to the debate, I forgot about that.  You're being asked if you'd like an independent Scotland but no-one seems willing to say how they'd run things or what they'd do if a) independence was voted for and b) they specifically were subsequently elected as an independent Scotland's first government.

It's a shame though because I'd certainly consider voting for independence if there was going to be any sort of reliable manifesto telling me what I could expect from an independent Scotland.  There are far too many questions for most people in my shoes, and lots of risks if they don't get answered.  My vote's pretty much "maybe, but, and without an answer to the but, no."

Interestingly, it seems that the vote will be extended to everyone resident in Scotland at the time.  So if I've understood it, Tempy, yes, as a temporary resident who's been there for a year and who is only resident during term time, you'll get to vote.  As someone who was born there, lived my first 21 years there, and still has my entire extended family and in-laws there, I won't, unless I have an address there at the time.

Despite the fact that I think a lot of the rhetoric is designed to appeal to anti-English types in dodgy Glasgweigan bars, a lot of the tentative support I've seen comes from some very sharp people, who're disappointed in the current system.  Virtually every moderate, slightly-right or left leaning social democracy in Europe is becoming an amalgam of the same stuff.  Except for Scandinavia, there's not much choice between a lot of western countries, and even now you don't really get much ideological difference between the main parties you'll be voting for in the UK.

Independence, despite the risks, is obviously a chance for something different, and right now there's a lot of people who'd just like the chance for something different.  It frustrates me because I'd love to make an informed choice, but until a party tells me how they'd handle things like security, policing, education, health, etc etc etc.  Just "different" isn't enough for me personally, but it probably will be for a lot.

In all my life Scotland has always had a socialist/left bent (anyone know why?) but the MPs elected on that ticket haven't been enough to influence the UK parliament in that direction. So it seems they're pulling up sticks and hiving off so they can have that influence.

TBH, I don't really disagree with that in principle, but it's all a bit



meets

Mod74 wrote:

In all my life Scotland has always had a socialist/left bent (anyone know why?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Conservative_Party#Consequences_of_merger

Gives a reasonable overview, although it's definitely more complicated than that. The Scottish Conservatives became representatives of a Scotland that had disappeared basically.

i think if Scotland want independence then England should go independent first.  that will show them, left lumbered with Wales.

on a slightly less silly note, i remember reading something quite interesting (though possibly false, it was probably wikipedia)

anyway, it was that basically it's only relatively recent (like 1920s-30s) that scottish people started distinguishing themselves from England again, before that after 100s of years of being a union the whole of 'great britain' was kind of considered one big England...

yep, it's precisely why it stuck in my head.  i just thought someone like G who was around at that time might be able to confirm it or not...

RamSteelwood wrote:

on a slightly less silly note, i remember reading something quite interesting (though possibly false, it was probably wikipedia) anyway, it was that basically it's only relatively recent (like 1920s-30s) that scottish people started distinguishing themselves from England again, before that after 100s of years of being a union the whole of 'great britain' was kind of considered one big England...

I'd imagine the idea of independence was a non-starter when Scotland had big export industries that sold most of their goods to the British Empire. The loss of that and subsequent EU membership make it look much more appealing.

In a general sense Scots should look to Ireland as an example. Its a relatively young country, some historical similarities & many geographical ones too.

If for no other reason than to see how not to do things.

PS: If it happens, please do not undercut our corporation tax. thanks.

Complicating the question and worrying about ex-pats are a couple of things the 'No' campaign have frothed about with as if it's a close call.

Independence? Yes or No.

It'll be no.

I think if i were Scottish i'd probably vote for independence. Then again, if i were actually Scottish i'd probably look into it a bit more than i have, which in turn might lead to me voting 'no'.

... or you might be like me, where you have an interest in it, and a possibility of living there at the time, but are frustrated that there's simply not much information out there.

I want to know what a Scottish defence force would look like.  Will I have a job, being that my only marketable skill is military flying?  Would we just contract it; if so, to who?  Gaff it off?  But all the defence chat is NATO/Trident led, and no meat on the bones.