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  • Yeah but it's an apache you see.
  • I know how nerdy this is, but I was really happy to find out, so hopefully someone else will be.

    Microsoft has brought back the best sensibly priced mouse anyone has ever made. It's even wired, like proper a mouse should be.

    iE31ir4.jpg
  • Ha.
    I like my mice to be basic and functional. I can't deal with all the faffy extra stuff or a mouse that is the size of a fully grown cat. The Apple mouse is the worst thing I have ever used.
  • I understand the appeal of trackballs, but I've never been able to get the hang of them. Large desktop trackpads seem like they'd work well, too.
  • Yossarian
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    I'm all about the trackpads these days. Mice certainly offer more fine-grained control, but I'm rarely doing anything on my computer that requires that much precision and for day to day use, I find trackpads much more appealing.
  • The lack of tactile feedback is what bothers me about trackpads, they are slightly better than a touchscreen I guess, but that's not saying much. I really like the little trackpoint nub in the Thinkpad I have, to the point where I don't think I would want to go back to using a laptop with only the trackpad.
  • The lack of tactile feedback is what bothers me about trackpads [...] I really like the little trackpoint nub in the Thinkpad I have

    ????
  • That’s possibly the most perverted thing I’ve ever read on this forum.
  • Aw yea, we just found the successor to the standing/sitting debate!
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • AJ wrote:
    The lack of tactile feedback is what bothers me about trackpads [...] I really like the little trackpoint nub in the Thinkpad I have
    ????

    ???

    There is a little pressure as you push the nub stuck in a direction, and proper mouse buttons you use with your thumb, far more tactile than a bloody trackpad, which is a glorified touchscreen AKA the worst human interaction device method ever devised.

    Click + drag maneuvers are miles easier with the nub + thumbclicks than a trying to play finger twister on a trackpad. Using audio software for example, making small adjustments to plugin dials is just lovely on a Thinkpad. Arguably more ergonomic too, as your hands can stay over the home row, and your wrist angles when used on a lap is soo much more comfortable than fucking around with a a trackpad. One handed operation using my Thinkpad with the extended battery pack as a handle is no joke, other people in my course can hardly do shit with their slippery Macbooks while standing.
  • Yossarian
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    I can't do thumb clicks no more, same reason as I need paddles on my controller.

    But yes, trackpads certainly aren't great for fine stuff, as I said, and dragging and dropping can be a little tricky if you try to do it with one hand (it's pretty easy with two) but between two finger scrolling, pinch to zoom and the various gestures you have on the trackpad, some of which I use constantly, I think it's far more versatile than any other option, albeit tacking into account that there are things that it isn't suited to.
  • ...

    I disagree with a lot of that, but this is a dumb thing to argue about discuss so I won't comment on specifics. I was just confused by the quoted statement because, ostensibly, it made no sense.
  • Yossarian
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    Also:
    Roujin wrote:
    Aw yea, we just found the successor to the standing/sitting debate!

    Not quite, here there are different possible correct answers.
  • Though none of them are Thinkpad nub. ;)

    Also, dragging and dropping with a trackpad is fine; double tap starts the drag and if you happen to run out of movement space the cursor continues to move when you pause at the edge of the pad.
  • Can you scroll with a nub?
  • Yes, with the middle button, right there -

    X270-FeatureImage-5.png?context=bWFzdGVyfHJvb3R8MTIyODE4fGltYWdlL3BuZ3xoMjcvaDUxLzk0MTMyMjA2MzA1NTgucG5nfDYyNWIxNTM4YzIyYmIxMmNkMDZkMWE5MWQ4ZDYwY2FlNDBmNjZmMjM4NTNjZTc4MmViYzAwNmJmZGU0MTMzOTk&w=1180
    Also works for horizontal scrolling. Plus you can still do the various multitouch gestures with the trackpad if needed.

    Drag/drop with a trackpad might be fine for the odd window movement or something, but it's an absolute tedious pain in the arse for dragging many files around, or adjusting a bunch of sliders/knobs in software. It's just way slower and more finicky as it requires more actions compared to just having your finger on the nub, and pressing the left button with your thumb.

    AJ wrote:
    ...
    I disagree with a lot of that, but this is a dumb thing to argue about discuss so I won't comment on specifics. I was just confused by the quoted statement because, ostensibly, it made no sense.

    It's really not that complicated. Dragging your finger over a smooth surface grants little connection with onscreen events, tapping particularly, as you often aren't totally sure if a click has been activated. Not to mention that there's often very little difference in feel of tapping the pad or the device casing a few centimetres away. A mouse or joystick clearly has much more of a physical aspect to it. That said there's room for improvement for trackpads, what with those interesting haptic motors and such. Probably won't be too long before the haptic touchscreen problem is mostly solved.

    Trackpoint nubs could be better, sure. Some kind of nice sprung hall effect mechanism would be good I think. But even for my 5 year old X230, that I've had to do some jank shit with the drivers to fine tune the acceleration, and with it's pretty naff trackpad compared to a Macbook or something, I would still take that over pretty much any modern laptop that lacks such an IMO elegant input method.
  • Yossarian
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    MacBooks have haptic trackpads these days. They’re just a flat sheet of glass with a motor that provides the click sensation. I can’t quite get my head around the fact that it doesn’t move. It’s nice, mind. No clicking dead spot near the hinge.
  • Now I'm sad because Gurt is more passionate about pointing devices than I am about pretty much anything and it's made my life feel empty.
  • I'm somewhat passionate about it because this kind of stuff does actually matter in the grand scheme of things, it relates to the ways in which we can understand and relate intuitively with computers. It is a bit a problem at the moment, the way we interact with them, it's all locked into a screen and often pretty poor input devices. Feels like it's going backwards tbh, what with touchscreens and such.

    evolution-of-man-to-computer.jpg

    Bret Victor has done a bunch of work and presentations on the subject of the future of computing, this one is particularly thought provoking I think -



    Much of the technology to achieve these things just isn't there yet, with enough effort I think we could see some amazing stuff within our lifetimes though. Providing there's enough of a push towards devices and environments that make use of our innate abilities -

    ePemOFH.png

    He's also written this which explains the problem with touch devices - http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/ and the follow up - http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/responses.html (site is a bit fucked up right now for some reason, seems zoomed in)
    We live in a three-dimensional world. Our hands are designed for moving and rotating objects in three dimensions, for picking up objects and placing them over, under, beside, and inside each other. No creature on earth has a dexterity that compares to ours.

    The next time you make a sandwich, pay attention to your hands. Seriously! Notice the myriad little tricks your fingers have for manipulating the ingredients and the utensils and all the other objects involved in this enterprise. Then compare your experience to sliding around Pictures Under Glass.
    Basically, the current way which we interact with all our marvelous computing machines is just shit really. Trackpads offer a marginally better experience with their matt surfaces compared to smooth glass, but still lack meaningful feedback. I've tried the new Macbook haptic trackpads, interesting idea, but all they're doing is mimicking a clicky physical button but without the actual travel distance of such a switch. There's some hope for that kind of tech though. At least with a Trackpoint nub it kind of feels like I'm actually pushing or tilting something around, still not the best solution probably, but better than dragging my finger across a featureless surface.
  • Has anyone here picked up a Surface Pro? Tempted by the i5 4gb but reviews are a little mixed. I wouldn't be using it for gaming, predominantly the office package and as a tablet.
  • Skerret
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    good timing tigro
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • Skerret
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    Read
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • Is it possible to buy a lightning fast laptop for under £200? Been tempted by the Chromebooks but don't really want a glorified tablet with a keyboard stuck on.

    Just want something fast for writing and WordPress.
    equinox_code "I need girls cornered and on their own"
  • No, you can't get even a slightly fast laptop for £200. You don't need something fast for writing and WordPress anyway.
  • I guess I meant responsive rather than fast.

    Ive found before some laptops like to think a lot before opening the browser/word.
    equinox_code "I need girls cornered and on their own"
  • I've been looking for something very similar for my sister and can't find anything that looks decent for less than £350. If you don't need any desktop apps or functionality, a Chromebook might be your best bet.

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