Retro Club - 8 & 16-bit puzzlers - The Bear and Badger

retroking1981

davyK wrote:

I had Total Carnage on SNES too but it didn't feel slick - came across as a bit of a hack.

Probably why I've never given it much time, seems a shame considering how well Smash TV was ported.

retroking1981

nick_md wrote:

I played some more just now but I'm finding it quite unforgiving, I'm only up to the third level (park/hedge maze). I'm using the password system as I don't really do save states. Maybe I'm shit.

Out of all the levels I played I found that the hardest to be fair.

It is quite unforgiving like you say.

Moot_Geeza

I'm in two minds about this as it seems to be a few tweaks away from being a noteworthy 16-bit top down shooter, but as it stands it's all a bit too finicky. When you face numerous enemies at once in the open hallway towards the end of the first stage, and the roll move comes into play, it's actually pretty good though? Will play more.

nick_md

Some of the anims are the best part for me, I love the roll for some reason, and shooting the Uzi has a great one-hand Arnie tech noir feel to it.

The password I have now starts me with 1 life in stage 3 though and I'm not sure I can do it, and can't really be arsed to start again. Give me til end of tomorrow and I'll post final thoughts.

Moot_Geeza

Does the Uzi spray have a touch of manual aim to it or was I imagining that?

retroking1981

Moot_Geeza wrote:

I'm in two minds about this as it seems to be a few tweaks away from being a noteworthy 16-bit top down shooter

I was to. I was ready to give up on level 3 but something about it kept me playing. By the time I hit level 8 though I'd made my mind up.

Moot_Geeza

I'll second your opinion on the AI, it's shocking.

nick_md

Switched on infinite lives and all weapons, had a reasonable enough time (and you get a cheeky message from Art Malik every time you die), but it had long outstayed its welcome by the time I got to the last level. The laptop I had my mini plugged into for power went to sleep, so the mini switched off. I couldn't be bothered to go back through again to see the end (or even just use a level select cheat).

The shooting can be fun at times, but the game is really punishing with a good amount of near-insta-death enemies (flamethrower guys), and there was too much trekking around for keys at times. Not sure why it gets the praise it does, bang average at best. 2/5

Moot_Geeza

I got to the maze but I think I'm done, partly because I was sulking after seeing a horseback bike chase story frame that wasn't followed by a horseback bike chase stage, but mainly because it seems to be such a schlep to reach the credits. Some games that might've been lauded for giving you more bang for buck at the time suffer on a first time retro appraisal, and this is definitely one of those. I would've found enough things to praise to award it a score in the high 70s if it didn't go all on, but as it stands I'll make do with the levels I played and the full Youtube runthrough I half watched. There's a good game buried annoyingly close to the surface here, but like looking for Enrique's gun stash after a few too many tequilas, buried is buried. Earns points for not being your standard T-600 skin-stamp tie-in, but it's more like an Avatar double bill (shown back to back with Avatar) than the plenty-of-fun source material.

It gets plenty of love in certain corners of the web considering it falls short of being a decent game, so retroheads on certain channels deserve a wobbling or two imo. Even if I try to look at it with my 1994 glasses on it's no better than a good one to rent.

retroking1981

retroking1981 wrote:

So it's not horrible. It's playable, looks and sounds decent enough. Compared the The Last Action Hero and Terminator 2 it's a masterpiece, but compared to Smash TV, Zombies ate my Neighbours, Pocky & Rocky and countless others it's simply not good enough. 2/5

nick_md wrote:

Not sure why it gets the praise it does, bang average at best. 2/5

Moot_Geeza wrote:

There's a good game buried annoyingly close to the surface here, but like looking for Enrique's gun stash after a few too many tequilas, buried is buried.

Damn, we're getting very consistent with our opinions.

retroking1981

Moot_Geeza wrote:

I was sulking after seeing a horseback bike chase story frame that wasn't followed by a horseback bike chase stage

Snap!

There's a Harrier Jump Jet level late on apparently, but the game needed more variety throughout.

nick_md

I remember watching a video where it was all like, 'you get to fly a plane! Shoot things! Dodge trains!' but really the plane level is one short level at the end, and trains are one part of one level. The gameplay never changes at all throughout the whole thing, aside from that brief plane level. If it were a tighter 5 or 6 levels with more variety it could've been much better.

Avatar double bill got a lol.

retroking1981

ROMs have been deleted, which I'm oddly finding just as satisfying as finding good new games to keep.

One step closer to the Mini consoles being full off just quality games.

Moot_Geeza

Next game then, or is anyone else keen on playing this one?

retroking1981

There's been plenty suggested on the last page, I quoted the ones I fancied near the bottom.

Moot_Geeza

hunk wrote:

Other possible retro games worthy of investigation.

Snes Do re mi fantasy Marchen adventure cotton Mega Man Soccer Fighter's History Quintet trilogy (SoulBlazer, Illusion of Time, Terranigma)

MD Ecco2 Shinobi3 Soleil Shining Force cd Sub Terrania

davyK wrote:

I propose going straight to the top drawer... [Cybernator pic]

nick_md wrote:

Someone at work suggested we add Pocky & Rocky to our retro list. Never played it, looks lush and my kinda thing from screens/vids.

Moot_Geeza wrote:

Ecco 2 is on of the strongest sequels in videogamedom, I would definitely play that again.

retroking1981 wrote:

I have both Smash TV and Total Carnage on SNES. The SNES Smash TV is amazing, I even prefer it to the arcade version which I also have in an arcade collection on PS1. I've never given much time to Total Carnage, should rectify that. I'm up for either, and a lot of other games mentioned.

retroking1981 wrote:

Other possible retro games worthy of investigation. Snes Marchen adventure cotton MD Shinobi3

Either of these would get my vote.

Moot_Geeza

We've done Sub-Terrania but we're talking eight years ago now. One of the best 16-bit shooters imo, always up for replaying that. Shinobi III I don't fancy as I played it quite a bit on 3DS. Great game though, probably better than Revenge all things considered, just not something I remember with quite as much fondness. The Saturn game is the one I really want to play, but the PAL butchering, low scores in UK mags and digitised sprites always put me off at the time.

nick_md

I vote for Total Carnage (didn't realise this was on the snes, I've only ever gone arcade), Cybernator or 100% Cotton (always fancied that in mags).

I'm just being lazy though because any MD effort requires me to sort an emu out, probably worth cajoling me tbh.

TC will be much better with 2 players I imagine.

nick_md

Scratch that let me opt for P&R over TC.

P&R
Cybernator
100% C

They're my shortened list, if that helps at all. Solid choices this round.

I picked last time so someone else make the call, happy with any of the suggestions from anyone tbh.

davyK

Sub Terrania is excellent - it's one of those gravity shooters. A genre I love.....If in the mood for that sort of thing I would also propose going back a generation and trying Solar Jet Man on the NES - pretty much the ultimate gravity shooting game with some really large levels to navigate and search through for items. Crying out for a remake though it's still not a bad looking game. Developed by Zippo (Wetrix crew) and published by Rare - Nintendo went to school on its smooth 8 way scrolling which was used by Nintendo in SMB3.

There's a good chance it's been done here before as it's one I rant about when the opportunity arises.

davyK

Also in the Smash TV / Total Carnage vein is Chaos Engine. I had that for SNES. Tremendous game but I think we may have covered that too?

Moot_Geeza

I don't think so, which strikes me as odd but I'm pretty sure I haven't played that since renting it near launch.

davyK

That will start of me off on the SNES port of Gods.

Loved that. Played it to death.

retroking1981

nick_md wrote:

P&R
Cybernator
100% C

All these are on my to play list, happy with any.

Wanna do the honours moot?

Moot_Geeza

Cybernator it is then. Thought posted this morning but must've forgotten.

Quality game, but just how good is it with 2020 hindsight? You decide.

nick_md

Sweet, may have a blast on that tonight.

davyK

I still like it - have had a couple of sessions. You are restricted to 3 credits so I am sticking with that instead of emulating. Great sound to it.

I'm bumming out in level 4 - that's the one where you get the laser - have taken out what I thought was the boss using the laser but there seemed to be more to come before I screwed up and got a game over. Punching is satisfying. Jumping is really well done - the weight of the suit is conveyed nicely.

ChopperByrne

Cybernator (Assault Suits Valken) is a fantastic game, with the right level of difficulty.

Unlike Assault Suit Leynos on Mega Drive which is super hard.

Thankfully Leynos got an excellent PS4 remake, which is far easier (and lets you play the original), and is generally really cheap on the PS Store.

nick_md

Did four or five levels on Cybernator last night and my god, what a game. Brilliant from the off, variety in levels, nice chunky sprites, nails the gameplay. I didn't have any doubts this would've stood the test of time tbh as it was one of my favourites back on the snes. It's probably the closest to playing an anime I can think of.

Will enjoy playing through fully over the weekend.

hunk

Cybernator is a great choice.
Controls are sublime even if dificulty is a bit steep. Visuals are quite good too, nice attention to details and lots of parallax. Sound has that 90's anime vibe. The controls and gameplay are the real stars tho', they've nailed the feeling of inertia and there's that tiny but important element of exploration and powering up leading up to a boss encounter.
Only at level2 and so far so good.

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