hylian_elf wrote:

I wonder what happened to Cinty. Does he post still?

He runs an NWA fan account.

I didn't realise you were a cop @DrewMerson, but it puts context into the occasional exchange we have had after I have put my clowns' shoes on and came off with some trite statement. You come across as a thoughtful, even gentle person.

This place is good because its a broad church of views but existing within a boundaries of decency. It's better with you than without.

The cops are getting a rough time of it at the moment. Being from NI, our police force are put into impossible situations and get criticism from all sides, and while there are some arseholes (as you say you get them everywhere and our armed force probably attracts a certain element), personally I have never had an issue when dealing with them here. I'm old enough to remember the times when cops here routinely stopped cars and asked names, destination etc. due to the situation here but even then they were fine, even though they all had to check under their cars every day and had to have safety phrases over the phone with their wives and family before going home.

I'm always glad that decent folk are motivated to join the Police.

DrewMerson wrote:

But I would ask anyone who feels that all cops are evil scum, but thinks that there should be Police

This debate's really about our feelings on the police's role in affairs backdropped by social deprivation, otherwise it's easy to deviate into pro-po Thatherite reductionism. You'd be happy with criminals on every street corner, would you? (Go on — read it in her voice!)

ACAB's too broad a stroke, for sure, but we can't dismiss its reason for being on overstep alone.

Whether or not that might germinate or calcify a them-and-us attitude.

Minnesänger wrote:

Beyond that, I do not think the police, as an institution, capable of reform.

Hoping for an us-versus-them situ is actually desirable among those who feel it's a necessary accelerant for change, where good cops are currently a barricade against attacks on its rotten core. This view's in tandem with believing the few remaining lefties in Labour are doing more harm than good by staying, the unity we could otherwise form reduced by their supporters' calls to reform the unreformable.

(Gonna be completely unguarded in this post, which you'd rather have than warmer insincerity, with any implied personal snippiness unintentional.)

In both cases I think socialist governance is the beginning of the fix, but since we appear stuck in this Tory hellhole, the police debate remains focused on the whys of ACAB's origins. I realise I can't 100% say I'd be looking for a way out had I joined the police, because of course my experiences of them would differ in that timeline.

So I feel defence is valid from both positions, but we have to unite in criticising their abuses of power, not as an inherently evil composite, but one that so openly garrisons evil beyond our mutual reach. I'd love to see more police on the other side at protests, for example, repping their communities.

Vitally for me in terms of my reaction to ACAB, I see the bastards part as a sliding scale, comprising everyone who defends the current direction of policing towards the least privileged. That doesn't mean every cop in my own definition, but it is implied, which is why I don't use it. Condone its use...? I think so.

Because while some cops are unfairly accused of being bastards, their good characters rejected, that's the cost of rebound for heinous shit going unresolved in their names. I sympathise with their mislabelling at the same time as feeling it's no compelling reason for me to criticise ACAB users, who I feel have grabbed this term for its novel traction with majority good intent. It's simply enough of a reason to avoid using it myself.

Some more general thoughts...

The response time for a self-confirmed burglary in progress here is typically hours rather than minutes, and I feel as likely to find a cop in one of their speedtrap laybys as our rural station (the usual anecdotal complaints). When one of my mates lived on a grim estate they only came out to issue fines, search lofts and collect bodies. Lots of people who were no threat have been tasered without warning for taking issue with harassment.

Once famously on video

Our rough areas are routinely cited by those who believe in society's collapse without policing, when they return lucid examples already. If drugs were legalised there'd be less violence, and if poverty were tackled we'd be well on our way. We don't hear the same noise about coke wars kicking off in Chipping Norton.

I think the police have grown into a political asset foremost, their increased hardlining sold as a solution to those most in need of alternative, base-positive help. A lot of precariats vote for their shitehawk directors through torment, helping to clear a path to buffed punitive rule. If you're a true-blue believer in that, does ACAB remain such a stretch if related duties fall to them?

Enforcement's much easier to see the good in when it's away and not towards, but is often in the wake of an absent preventive (selfishness excepted as fair game). No-one ever said we shouldn't try and catch killers or stop the shittiest of crims, but it's not fruitful for that same group to bear responsibility for so many people their limited powers of resolution conflict with.

Not wanting to fan any flames here but this clearly indicates the scale of the issue of police corruption is not simply a few bad apples. I appreciate that this applies to the Met and other forces could be doing a better job.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/revealed-drugs-cash-jewellery-stolen-by-corrupt-cops-scale-inept-policing-laid-bare-164341095.html

When you can admit 50+ new recruits in a year with recordable offences you have lost the argument. Saying those offences are small such as theft completely undermines any confidence and typical person could have in trusting the police to be the best of our society.

The fact that the Met doesn’t know if people in Child Protection (!!!) are vetted properly is beyond worrying.

That’s before we get into the internal theft and sexual misconduct stuff.

Politics, the free market and the war industry are so intertwined and messed up....

Carole Cadwalladr on her trial, which I admittedly know very little about:

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1509612965011804162?s=21

I somehow missed that this happened:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/mar/15/australian-pms-department-drops-widely-mocked-phallic-womens-network-logo

This current gov has been a joke right from the start.

ShabbyMcCrabby wrote:

I somehow missed that this happened:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/mar/15/australian-pms-department-drops-widely-mocked-phallic-womens-network-logo

This current gov has been a joke right from the start.

What a cock up.

Projections show Macron wins with 58% of the vote.

I'm not a big fan and he certainly needs to up his game but no Le Pen is a good thing. That win probably saved the EU today.

From what I saw earlier turnout was estimated to be only slightly lower than 2017. That may be different when official numbers come out.

There are also spoiled ballots to factor in and there was some speculation they would be higher than the norm.

Gremill wrote:

Imagine having to choose between Macron and Le Pen. I mean, you'd obviously have to vote for the least awful candidate, but you'd have to shower in TCP afterwards to get the stink off of your soul.

Come to Northern Ireland.

Operation cancel big dog.

I have an IRL friend call Tim West so tbh this is great news for me in terms of available banter

Ignore the Ped thread request, Nina found it for me.

https://twitter.com/thejimmalo/status/1519600502702366720?t=ThezGETgEQpO43uC96ZOoA&s=19