The British Politics Thread - The Bear and Badger

Roujin

If you like the US Office and want to defund the BBC, get in this thread and explain yourself right the fuck now, etc.

Gremill

I don't want my tax dolla to fund the arts, because they're just a distraction that takes me away from grinding my soul into dust for our corporate overlords.

djchump

Have we had this yet?

mrsmr2

Perfection.

b0r1s

Beautiful

Lurch666

My point is that paying for a TV station I don't use is different from paying for healthcare I don't use.
One is useful the other isn't when they can just use a subscription model like the other TV stations.
Why should the BBC get a free pass on funding?
If they are that good then people would be happy to pay a subscription so making it a tax says to me they know people would not subscribe if they had the choice.

poprock

The BBC is not like other TV (or any media) services. It’s a public service, with specific functions and remits it has to fulfil. Other TV stations only have to make a profit.

Yossarian

Not useful at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jan/05/bbc-educational-cbbc-uk-covid-lockdown-curriculum

acemuzzy

Personal health insurance is a subscription model competing against the NHS, isn't it?

Lurch666

acemuzzy wrote:

Personal health insurance is a subscription model competing against the NHS, isn't it?

And one I disagree with.
I however think everyone paying for a TV license can pay for A BBC subscription. Give people a choice on what TV they consume.

Roujin

Lurch666 wrote:

My point is that paying for a TV station I don't use is different from paying for healthcare I don't use.
One is useful the other isn't when they can just use a subscription model like the other TV stations.
Why should the BBC get a free pass on funding?
If they are that good then people would be happy to pay a subscription so making it a tax says to me they know people would not subscribe if they had the choice.

It's got nothing to do with people not wanting to pay for Blue Planet. Its to do with the provision of local and worldwide services that people use that would simply not exist if the BBC was funded privately and started operating on a for profit basis.

It's about people understanding that as well as publicly funding healthcare, publicly funded broadcast services also serve a function, even if it's less immediately tangible because it's not someone giving you life saving drugs, its someone teaching you about some ancient history at weird o'clock in the morning, or someone making you laugh for a few minutes on a shit day, or watching something that inspires you to get out and go somewhere or start a new hobby or sport.

b0r1s

Rouj channeling “Why Don’t You” :-)

LivDiv

Lurch's position here is exactly why I was saying it has to be more transparent.

If it is for the greater good it shouldn't be optional and should be means tested/income linked to make it fairer.

The current system is of course going to breed opinions like Lurch's because it isnt at all clear or fair.

Lurch666

Who said for profit?
Is there no way the BBC can still remain none profit and have a subscription or adverts?

poprock

The Beeb does a million things apart from just make TV shows. For one thing it provides routes into the creative industries for tens of thousands of people. The BBC is a massive talent incubator, which contributes incalculable amounts to the UK economy in the long term. Talk to anybody in the film, TV or radio industries in the UK and I’ll bet more than 90% got their start at the BBC.

LivDiv

poprock wrote:

The Beeb does a million things apart from just make TV shows. For one thing it provides routes into the creative industries for tens of thousands of people. Talk to anybody in the film, TV or radio industries in the UK and I’ll bet more than 90% got their start at the BBC.

Maybe radio. Doubt the other two.

Yossarian

A BBC funded by advertising or subscription would be unrecognisable from the BBC we have today. What the BBC offers cannot be replicated under a commercial model.

Roujin

Lurch666 wrote:

Who said for profit?
Is there no way the BBC can still remain none profit and have a subscription or adverts?

You still have to make programming based on keeping subscribers or advertising revenue coming in even if you are non profit. How financially viable is BBC News Swahili?

Wookienopants

Touch or harm my BBC and I will fight you

acemuzzy

Lurch666 wrote:

acemuzzy wrote:

Personal health insurance is a subscription model competing against the NHS, isn't it?

And one I disagree with. I however think everyone paying for a TV license can pay for A BBC subscription. Give people a choice on what TV they consume.

So why do you disagree with subscription for healthcare, but agree with it in the space(s) that the BBC operates in? Sums of money involved, or nature of the area(s)?

I can see an argument that it's regressive (in the tax sense) as a funding model. I wouldn't be averse to somehow changing that. But I think - given it is already elective - a full subscription model would be less good than what we have.

mistercrayon

I think it’s critical to have a national media service outside of government and outside of standard funding models.

Imagine if the BBC had to fight for your eyeballs and wallet to give you news - it’s only going to create a more extreme version of news.

But similarly it has to be outside the government because it shouldn’t be at the whims and tool of the government in a dangerously tight interningling.

monkey

The fact its compulsory drives a lot of the ill-will I think. Like, there's just as much unwatchable garbage on Netflix that 'my money is paying for' but it's different when I can technically leave it at any time. But seeing some of the dross the BBC output is harder to take as it is more of a tax. Think its the Points of View mentality everyone was brought up with.

Tbh, I don't know what sort of demographic watches BBC1 now. It used to be all ages but who's sitting around on Saturday night watching garbage quiz shows now? Everything seems to have to pass the test of being acceptable to grans. Stupid grans who want to watch the sort of crap that was on forty years ago. Universal tele used to be more of a thing when everyone had to watch what was on. So please as many punters as possible.

The documentaries are weird now as well. You used to get far more eg proper hardcore science documentaries on BBC 2. Now it's Michael Mosley doing dumb shit like going on crash diets. The highbrow stuff is shuffled off to BBC4 where no one watches it. And because it's there, it has no budget. So something previously good has been split into something worse and something dumb.

Wookienopants

Hasn't this been a brilliantly effective distraction tactic from the Tories?
Look at us, talking about the BBC rather than Boris and his Cronies!

monkey

It's not going to happen anyway. They might freeze the licence like they're suggesting but Nadine Dorries and Boris Johnson aren't going to be anywhere near government by 2027. They'll both be fortunate to still be in place by the end of the month.

Yossarian

It’s worth saying that you don’t need to pay a TV license if you don’t watch (or record) live TV or use iPlayer. Other catch up services through the internet are fine as long as you don’t watch the live streams (which includes the “play from start” type options if something is still being aired).

Lurch666

One question.
Do you think I should pay for a TV license even though I don't watch the BBC?
Since it appears to be such a great institution should I pay for it's upkeep even thought I will never watch it?

monkey

Yes.

Although that answer is only sustainable as long as there’s relatively few people like you. The more who don’t need it, the harder it becomes to justify. And the trend is towards you.

MattyJ

Do you literally never consume anything from the BBCs output? Never any of its radio stations? Any of its websites? Any TV show it produces whether on BBC or not?

Brooks

its someone teaching you about some ancient history at weird o'clock in the morning, or someone making you laugh for a few minutes on a shit day, or watching something that inspires you to get out and go somewhere or start a new hobby or sport.

I don't think this is actually within the Beeb's power to do at all convincingly in 2022, sadly.

I don't think their editors are worth a fucking thing, but I suspect you're not going to get better ones without actually upping the fees and then hiring them. Which I guess I'd be fine with.

Roujin

Lurch666 wrote:

One question.
Do you think I should pay for a TV license even though I don't watch the BBC?
Since it appears to be such a great institution should I pay for it's upkeep even thought I will never watch it?

Yes you should. It's okay to contribute your taxes for the greater public good in a civilised, modern, compassionate (admittedly we're only aspirationally compassionate atm) society.

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