F1 - The Bear and Badger

poprock

Funkstain wrote:

If I were Merc's PR, I'd probably leave it at Ham's very impressive post-race interviews, classy, above it all, let-others-decide-about-obviously-corrupt/inept-Masi et al, with Verstappen left to stew in what even other drivers see as a shiftily won WDC, and fuck him right up next year.

100% agree with you there, Funk.

But Wolff won’t let it lie, even though he should. Aren’t Merc suing the FIA already? I think they should at least keep quiet and rise above it all in the press, even if they’re letting a lawsuit rumble on in the background.

Personally I think it’d be fun to put Hamilton and Verstappen up against each other in the Race of Champions during the off-season. Never gonna happen though.

b0r1s

Agree with everything Funk said there. Ham was the perfect sportsman there at the end, and Max still ends up coming off the cunt, couldn't even congratulate his challenger.

Still that crash when Max landed on Lewis' head and he just got out and walked off without checking on a potentially injured competitor tells me all I ever need to know about the man... forever a cunt.

RamSteelwood

Funkstain wrote:

I don't think there is any chance this will be overturned, so Merc need to think about reputation. Right now, as far as I can tell, anyone who knows anything about this (most especially the other drivers) are saying that, at the very least, this was "weird" decision making, at worst (Danny Ricc) saying he's "speechless" at the process. This sullies Verstappen's championship significantly. Next year Merc will be back stronger, with a more determined Ham and a better driving partner. If I were Merc's PR, I'd probably leave it at Ham's very impressive post-race interviews, classy, above it all, let-others-decide-about-obviously-corrupt/inept-Masi et al, with Verstappen left to stew in what even other drivers see as a shiftily won WDC, and fuck him right up next year.

I think it will be influenced by how Lewis is behind the scenes. If he really does feel like the rule makers are working against him and considering jacking it all in, Merc may be more inclined to fight it and 'right that wrong' in their eyes, even if just to get clarity on the rules. If he's leaning more in a 'we'll fucking show them next year' direction then they might let it go

mistercrayon

poprock wrote:

Funkstain wrote:

If I were Merc's PR, I'd probably leave it at Ham's very impressive post-race interviews, classy, above it all, let-others-decide-about-obviously-corrupt/inept-Masi et al, with Verstappen left to stew in what even other drivers see as a shiftily won WDC, and fuck him right up next year.

100% agree with you there, Funk.

But Wolff won’t let it lie, even though he should. Aren’t Merc suing the FIA already? I think they should at least keep quiet and rise above it all in the press, even if they’re letting a lawsuit rumble on in the background.

Personally I think it’d be fun to put Hamilton and Verstappen up against each other in the Race of Champions during the off-season. Never gonna happen though.

I think I’d only want to see this if they had them in each other’s cars.

poprock

mistercrayon wrote:

I think I’d only want to see this if they had them in each other’s cars.

The whole point of the ROC is that everybody has to compete in identical cars, and across a whole range of car types. So two drivers square off for a time trial in Ariel Atoms, then two drivers square off in NASCARs, then in off-road trucks, then in hot hatches, etc etc.

What usually happens is that the cocky F1 drivers get spanked by retired greats, or by racers from other classes (like the year Andy Priaulx walked all over them, or the years Sebastien Loeb has.)

RamSteelwood

they should bring back top gear F1 'star in a car' thing for a special one off to settle Lewis and Max. fastest lap gets the title

mistercrayon

poprock wrote:

mistercrayon wrote:

I think I’d only want to see this if they had them in each other’s cars.

The whole point of the ROC is that everybody has to compete in identical cars, and across a whole range of car types. So two drivers square off for a time trial in Ariel Atoms, then two drivers square off in NASCARs, then in off-road trucks, then in hot hatches, etc etc.

What usually happens is that the cocky F1 drivers get spanked by retired greats, or by racers from other classes (like the year Andy Priaulx walked all over them, or the years Sebastien Loeb has.)

Ah I didn’t realise you meant a Race of Champions (rtm) rather than a racing of champions.

dynamiteReady

I still see this as nothing more than a refereeing / officiating howler, but it looks more and more like the worst decision of it's type ever made.

I've since found out about the Olympics Basketball final in 1972... That was pretty close. Closer in nature to this F1 finale than the 'Hand of God', for example. It would have looked at least slightly less unfair if all the the backmarkers were un-lapped, whether Merc decided to pit Ham or not.

Bob

Apparently the daft twat contradicted his own previous clarification of the rules.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/michael-masi-contradicts-lapped-car-clarification/

It's smacking more and more of Americans desperate to create spectacle. And Red Bull desperate to crown their enfant terrible with a hollow crown before losing him.

Diluted Dante

Of course he has, because what he did is absolutely without precedent, and to justify it the stewards have had to say that the Race Director can make up any old shit that he likes, and any regulations under the sections he has control over may as well not exist.

It's blindingly obvious that the section they refer to is saying that the Race Director is the person who has ultimate authority over the things mentioned and not the clerk of the course. He still has to follow the regulations set down regarding those things.

There was only one way to finish the race under a green flag within the regulations, and that was the very first decision made - lapped cars may not overtake.

Bob

Which would have resulted in at least a fair fight.

GooberTheHat

I'm surprised other teams haven't lodged a complaint too. Any team that had drivers lapped and behind Verstapen were denied the opportunity to compete for places with those between Verstapen and Hamilton, so totally unfair for those teams, but I guess only Redbull matter.

RamSteelwood

yeah, would have been extra spicy if a team missed out on a chance to move up a spot in the constructors due to it, but i think that was pretty much settled already?

FranticPea

Am I right in thinking that Sainz had a car between him and Max? It's all hazy now.

jdanielp

Danny Ric was the car behind Max at the restart.

Diluted Dante

Sainz had also one stopped, so it's probable he wouldn't have been able to attack Max, but on a restart, you never really know, especially with what Lewis had to do to bunch everything up. Sainz might still have finished third, but caused Max enough problems to not get past Lewis.

Bob

Apparently the feeling is now Mercedes won’t appeal

Diluted Dante

I hope they have another opportunity to nail Massi to the fucking wall then.

Letting that stewards decision stand is utterly ludicrous. The FIA have to say that its complete bollocks, or the regulations are meaningless.

poprock

You don’t sound familiar with the levels of ego and pride in F1, there. No way are the FIA going to nail Massi to anything. That’d be like admitting they were wrong to hire him. No chance.

mistercrayon

There was something that said that he was replacing a guy who basically did his job plus three others and that guy had a chance to become a dad of the sport before these cocky upstarts like Wolff and Horner were essentially more senior in terms of experience. It must be a tough job come into.

You basically need a godfather in there whole will break the rules if you fuck around with him.

Bob

Diluted Dante wrote:

I hope they have another opportunity to nail Massi to the fucking wall then.

Letting that stewards decision stand is utterly ludicrous. The FIA have to say that its complete bollocks, or the regulations are meaningless.

Have you watched the Senna film Dante ?

Diluted Dante

I think Charlie Whiting could still do a better job now.

Pop, Jean Todt is stepping down so whoever replaces him won't have to worry about admitting wrongdoing. Stefano Domenicali also only came in this year, so Masi isnt his guy either.

I get that its a difficult job, and the previous guy literally wrote the regulations, and that Christian Horner is a cunt, but he had to know that what he was doing was not allowed at least after the race.

Bob

Diluted Dante wrote:

I think Charlie Whiting could still do a better job now..

I’m not sure the Ouija board could move that quick

T

poprock

The FIA have admitted the finale was a shitshow. They’re launching a review of safety car procedures in consultation with the teams and drivers, and ‘hope’ to wrap it up in time to adjust the rules for 2022.

So, er, exactly what we all expected them to do.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/f1-season-was-tarnished-by-abu-dhabi-safety-car-controversy-admits-fia

b0r1s

As long as the outcome is Masi never directs a race again then it won’t all be bad.

mistercrayon

it doesn't solve the problem.

Bob

So they admit now their was
Controversy but at the time said it
Was fine ? Controversial!

mistercrayon

In the article they avoid saying the decision was wrong. THey say things like the confusion and the chat from the team principles are causing an image problem.

Diluted Dante

Yeah there is no misunderstanding. We all understand the regulations weren't followed.

The onboards from all the drivers have come out and they are all saying 'what the fuck is going on?'

Bob

As suspected Mercedes have announced no further appeals

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