I've heard from a few different sources now that there had been some kind of agreement made in advance of today's race that a red flag wouldn't be shown towards the end (unless given exceptional circumstances, presumably?). I'm not sure if this is true or who it was between, but if so it would be another of these FIA overstepping the mark style situations like the deal making before the restart the other weekend, especially if not all teams had a say, but if it turns out that Mercedes agreed to it then maybe they just have themselves to blame...

Trying to think objectively about the scenario and i do think they need to reconsider safety car use and rules. I think with modern tech it's not nearly as needed as it used to be in terms of gathering the drivers in the right order etc, and they can make things much fairer, as safety car has always been a lottery and mostly harms the car in the lead.
the VSC is a better tool for keeping the race fair since you don't lose any advantage built. (also maybe you need to ban pitstops during VSC/safety car.)
if an incident requires more than VSC to resolve, why don't they just use a red flag? bring all cars in...either everyone or no one gets a free pit stop (that's a red flag rule that needs considered too)...then you resume without wasting too many laps.

make those changes and they you have it where you maintain the gaps and any tyre diffs, or you compress the field but make it fair on tyres.

finishing races behind the SC is unsatisfactory, even if it's what i felt should have happened yesterday according to the rules...but i'd have been happy with a 1 or 2 lap shootout between Max and Lewis if it was on fair tyres

Paul the sparky wrote:

What happened yesterday was such bollocks. Why wasn't Sainz in 3rd allowed to get in on the action?

Cos Red Bull and F1 just wanted Max to win it.

Aye still rankles today. Already sick of the 'totally deserved' plaudits for Verstrappon. In the context of the season, yes. Maybe more wins, podiums, but Ham has shown the consistency of a champion to draw level on points with less. In the context of the last few races and yesterday's In particular, no. Ham had that race and Verstrappon in his pocket. Events conspired against him which is fair game in F1, but when the race director conspires against you, it's rotten.

acemuzzy wrote:

Also he wouldn't have had more wins if ham had been given the win yesterday...

or they hadn't gifted max the win in spa by....running behind a safety car for just 2 laps then declaring the race finished.
or indeed the couple of races earlier in the season that max won by forcing lewis off when he was trying to pass, and max got no penalty.

Which is why there should be no direct contact from the pit wall to the director. Masi is weak, Horner is a cunt.

Webbins wrote:

Which is why there should be no direct contact from the pit wall to the director. Masi is weak, Horner is a cunt.

Yeah and it may just be the way they choose to broadcast it but Red Bull are always on the Blower first.. then Mercedes.. In hindsight they maybe should have changed lewis tyres but I expect Max would have just caused a crash.

It's Motorsport sometimes things just don't go your way.

Some crazy talk from Webber and the Daily Mail about Lewis quitting but I can't see it without at least seeing how the new regulations pan out.

Diluted Dante wrote:

Brundle asked Massi before the race if there would be a red flag in this situation and he said no. I suspect thats where it came from. Which is actually the right decision. Red flags aren't there to give a thrilling climax to a title fight. They're used on safety grounds. A barrier needs repairing, a third of the field just crashed into each other on a restart, we've done 2 laps behind the safety car thus fulfilling the requirements of a race, things like that.

Fair point, although intentional misintepretation of the official rules isn't there to give a thrilling climax either.

I imagine that Ram's argument for getting rid of safety cars wouldn't be considered on the basis of the VSC not giving enough clear track time each lap for marshals to do their job in as safe as possible conditions (and the loss of sponsorship money from the manufacturer providing the safety car of course...).

jdanielp wrote:

Diluted Dante wrote:

Brundle asked Massi before the race if there would be a red flag in this situation and he said no. I suspect thats where it came from. Which is actually the right decision. Red flags aren't there to give a thrilling climax to a title fight. They're used on safety grounds. A barrier needs repairing, a third of the field just crashed into each other on a restart, we've done 2 laps behind the safety car thus fulfilling the requirements of a race, things like that.

Fair point, although intentional misintepretation of the official rules isn't there to give a thrilling climax either. I imagine that Ram's argument for getting rid of safety cars wouldn't be considered on the basis of the VSC not giving enough clear track time each lap for marshals to do their job in as safe as possible conditions (and the loss of sponsorship money from the manufacturer providing the safety car of course...).

in 'my argument' there though they'd have gone quickly to red flag if the VSC wasn't up to the job, and then we'd have had a couple of laps racing on fairer tyres (either both changed under red flag or neither doing so under VSC or red flag). i still think in that scenario max would prob win, but at least it would feel like a fair fight and not a setup.

@ram
With both on new softs I think Lewis would have won. You saw how close he was to coming back at Max on the second straight. Max may have decided to run him off the track but the Mercedes looked super slippery yesterday and deffo had the legs on the RB.

Yeah, the full safety car bunches up the field and gives marshalls space to get out on the track to clear debris.

The problem with a red flag is how much time it takes. That would bring in a whole new set of problems.

Just ban pit stops under the safety car unless you were involved in the reason for the safety car I guess.

With what happened to Jules Bianchi and a marshall being killed at Brands Hatch this year I don't think VSC covers enough safety bases and red flagging continually isn't practical as Dante highlighted.

I’m not sure who thinks it’s a good idea to have cars diving into and out of the pits during a safety situation

But only when it’s his cars.

I don't think there is any chance this will be overturned, so Merc need to think about reputation.

Right now, as far as I can tell, anyone who knows anything about this (most especially the other drivers) are saying that, at the very least, this was "weird" decision making, at worst (Danny Ricc) saying he's "speechless" at the process. This sullies Verstappen's championship significantly. Next year Merc will be back stronger, with a more determined Ham and a better driving partner.

If I were Merc's PR, I'd probably leave it at Ham's very impressive post-race interviews, classy, above it all, let-others-decide-about-obviously-corrupt/inept-Masi et al, with Verstappen left to stew in what even other drivers see as a shiftily won WDC, and fuck him right up next year.