Hades
  • I think there’s a little bit of them really proud of what they’ve done but to the point where if it was a book there would be an editor to tell them to delete some of this. I think the most telling example of this is the egregious cutscene that happens when you decide “I’m ready to go” and they put one of those Hades one word cutscenes in. I think it’s rude to get someone to be ready to start only to impede them with immediately useless information. There is no good reason to put that information there except for one reason - it is the only space that that the player is guaranteed to go if they are interested in the game. And thus they put one of the things they are proud of - narrative - right in your face. To my mind though it shows a wrong focus - the maker rather than the player.
  • Kow
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    I like that if you cut the narrator off you get a "hmph" or something similar from him. I hear it a lot. If you let him finish you get a response from Zagreus.
  • I love their little back and forth schtick
  • I died on second boss yesterday. I was too reckless. :(
    I am a FREE. I am not MAN. A NUMBER.
  • I don't feel like the narrative elements are huge imposition on the player, the conversations in hades all appear to be optional, I can kind of see where the insertion of the Hades scenes immediately before the runs start could be seen as a bit of a blocker, but they're like 10 seconds long and they don't happen for every run, they only seem to trigger as you are advancing specific skill or story elements as far as I can tell.

    Also, and I can't stress this enough, the dialogue in this game is really well written, especially Zagreus, who despite being the son of the king of the underworld, goes about his business with extremely normal person energy and the back and forths between the characters come off really naturally, it's like a really nice little soap opera or something but set in Hades.

    I finally managed to clear last night with the sword, but only by the skin of my teeth using 3 death defies plus skelly in the final fight. Also managed a heat 2 run with big gunny thanks to a couple of nice boons from daedalus basically giving me a big machine gun that was doing insane damage in backstab and me having 5 dashes to actually let me get behind tough enemies with enough time and distance to unload on them.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • If you're bouncing off the narrative I can see why the minor impositions at the start of a handful of runs might seem annoying, but I can't say it bothered me. I get a few repeats in 1.0 due to having them during various stages in the Early Access, which has happened once or twice really cos I imagine there's a lot of progress triggers getting nixed or swapped around due to the updates. But they're like... 30 seconds long max, i've got over 80 hours in the game now and I think I get one every 10 or so runs, at most.
     
    In other places the dialogue is largely super economical. The conversations with the Chthonic gods and Olympians being skippable if you aren't jiving with it. You only need to gift everyone one Nectar to get their trinket, and that's it. The rest, bar to a handful of story interjects, is entirely up to you. 

    That said however, narrative stuff is literally Supergiant's Forte. It's what they've made their whole image in - well written dialogue and interesting stories, expecting Hades to just elide all that cos it's a roguelike is misunderstanding their entire reason for being as a studio. I think you might just need to accept you don't like the game Crayon, which is entirely fine, but expecting a studio known for narrative to just like, not do that, is bringing the wrong expectations to their game.
  • Why can’t I criticise it and find bits of it fun?

    Why would I find the space between me doing things an imposition if the things were impeding things I don’t want to do?

    I do find the universal praise (not here mind, but mostly from people on Twitter and other “official” opinions) a little bit tiresome though

    Additionally it might be the case I don’t like the game but it’s a little bit of a pringles game because I do find myself dipping into it unthinkingly. There are layers where the game works but I find the game puts barriers in place which take away from the enjoyable space.
  • I am not saying you can't criticise it, but it feels like you're slogging through with a game you don't like is all. As I say, it's an expectation thing.
  • Kow
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    As a criticism, I would say I don't like the art style at all. It's not as bad as things like Mark of the Ninja, but I still find it unappealing.
  • My main bugbear with the art style is I wish they'd gone for the more flattened 2D colour characters of Pyre rather than the kind of ugly low-poly characters they have here, as it would probably match the 2D art a lot better. Main aesthetic draw is the music though, it's so distinctively Darren Korb, yet goes a lot harder than his previous stuff. The use of what I assume is a Theremin (could be an Ondes Martenot I guess?) is amazing in tracks like Rage of the Myrmidons, I love how he contrasts more classical instruments in the first half of themes with the more traditional electronic stuff in the boss fight halves.

  • The use of colour is wonderful. I can't recall another game with the same palette. Dark but rich at the same time.
  • Weaning myself off to focus on other things, but I did just do a 21 minute spear clear therre after seeing lots of folks say the spear is their favourite weapon (I don't get on with it) and due to some fortuitous boon stacking I managed to obliterate the boss of Elysium inn 40 seconds. Revenge boons go brrrrrrrrrrrrr!
  • regmcfly
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    I'm dropping in to say this is probably my 2020 goty at the moment. Bye.
  • Dark Soldier
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    Its second behind Cyberpunk for me, stepped up over Neon Abyss
  • regmcfly
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    I like that you have a goty that doesn't exist yet fanboi confirmed.
  • regmcfly
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    Thats like me going fucking Monster Hunter Rise is goty of 2021. Are you out your fucking nut son
  • Dark Soldier
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    i just know quality when i see it
  • regmcfly
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    Well can I claim Mohan as goty 2021 then son because that will be fucking TIGHT
  • Dark Soldier
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    yes by all means, lets do the awards now @jonb
  • regmcfly
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    I'm nominating the not announced Splatoon 3 as best online game
  • Questor
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    This is absolutely my GOTY so far (ignoring that I have been playing in Early Access for 18 months.....)

    I love everything about it
  • Okay, I did quibble on the narrative at first, but after a few more hours on this thing it's actually starting to grab me. There must be thousands of hours of dialogue here, it's incredible. I've not heard a single repeat yet? The incidental comments about a previous run from some NPC's is just uncannily good.

    But that's just an aside from the gameplay. It's just madness how good it is. The boon juggling is like sex in your hand.
  • Saw a tweet that said Kasavin alone had written something like 304,000 words of dialogue for the game. It's been interesting to dip in and out of it during Early Access, as new things were added, and systems were tweaked.
  • I got to the last boss then died.
  • I got to the last boss then died.

    It's a tough boss, took me a few attempts. I generally like to take Skelly's Tooth with me to the final area as I am a coward.
  • I think one extra set of Health would have helped. I had the power that gives you 30% health per death defiance but it recharges every room but boosted for 15 rooms. But that whole level has about a hundred small rooms.
  • Yeah it's an interesting area as it makes some boons like Side Hustle and Rare Crop stupid powerful. I think I was somewhere between 30 and 50 runs before I felled the final boss too.

    Edit: Just checked my stats for real, looks like I had 27 runs before the second to last patch (I only used to dip in for 2 or 3 back in the day) then it took me 18 runs to win, most of that was getting up my Dark Mirror stock I think.

    Just managed to clown the last boss there with a twin fist build that had just over 50% chance to dodge attacks, stupid fun.
  • acemuzzy
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    Enjoying it more than my dabble in EA, but still not totally won over. Early days tho I guess and will give it some more love. Not liking the bow and arrow but not got the spear yet so all about the sword still, and still figuring out mechanics etc really...
  • Yeah, each weapon has 4 different forms that you can unlock and upgrade, beyond the 6 weapons that actually exist so you're like a naked newborn mewling in the light of the dawn. Definitely persist to your first full clear before casting a verdict.

    I just bossed through a Sub 20 minute clear, and scraped one at 20:45 that I was sure was gonna be sub 20. Curses!
  • I like the bow and arrow with the following upgrades

    1) anything with stacking status
    2) if you can upgrade it with fast shooting.

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