Welcome to fat fighters.. 2020 .. Double Digits.. - The Bear and Badger

The Daddy

hylian_elf wrote:

Good stuff!

Was it in this thread that we were talking about milk recently? I’m on gold top nowadays. Great stuff.

Aye, me too.

Diluted Dante

Gold top is like drinking butter, couldn't cope with that.

superflyninja

Sigh. Long story short....not been to the gym regularly in a year now. All my swole is now blubber. Im getting some walking in daily and have some weights at home. So have started on that side again to keep me going until I can get back to gym again.
But my main issue is the eating. I was doing fine but when the gym slid so did the eating. Im back worse than ever. I can never seem to stay full. Ill eat a big dinner and try n fill up on veg etc but little while later starving again. Its the volume....Anyone help with that plz?

Diluted Dante

Do you eat well then? Is the issue just the amount you eat?

Roujin

Ayo grats davy, keep going fella you're doing awesome.

Status update from an annoying soy boy: I am probably well into 34" trouser territory but no fucking way am I buying any more clothes, got a wedding and a big family party to do in May so will buy closer to the time. I can also see my meagre musculature moving about beneath my skin reasonably clearly as well these days (on those occasions when I have to be unbearably undressed long enough to notice). That was actually a more encouraging sight than I thought it would be. I'm doing the same old, same old, but lately when I do my baby exercise routine at home I've been finishing with some running on the spot/jumping about/shadow boxing/whatever cardio and it's got to the point where I think I might be tempted to actually go for an actual run, even though I would prefer not to fuck my knees lol.

@superflyninja I know that feeling bud. When I started off I was forever feeling hungry a short while after I ate. I'm not sure what I did to make it go away (very fucking useful Rouj, you moran) but it did go away. If you aren't you can always try stuff like eating porridge, or more beans and grains as those take longer to digest so might keep you feeling full for longer. Alternatively I guess you could find something to snack on like fruit, or pickles or something that won't impact on you. One thing you could try, is that sometimes when you think you're hungry, you're actually thirsty, but the human brain can be a bit shit at telling the difference, I think I have/had this, especially when I was a #biglad next time you get hungry, try having a drink and see if that helps. Don't worry about falling off the wagon, it happens, it happened to me a couple of times, you'll find your rythmn eventually though and then everything gets a bit easier. Don't worry too much about the gym right now, just focus on your food and keep walking around a bit, even that will yield results if you can stick to it. Best of luck!

Diluted Dante

I had porridge at about 10 this morning, and I'm famished now, so I can't vouch for the hunger stopping powers

Roujin

Yeah but it kept you going till lunchtime Dante, now you can eat your lunch, hopefully then your lunch keeps you full until you get hungry at dinner time. It doesn't have to to sustain you all day, just keep you going from meal to meal without having the overwhelming urge to grab a few biscuits with your tea/coffee break.

Diluted Dante

I've had 2 Trios.

Dan

superflyninja wrote:

Sigh. Long story short....not been to the gym regularly in a year now. All my swole is now blubber. Im getting some walking in daily and have some weights at home. So have started on that side again to keep me going until I can get back to gym again. But my main issue is the eating. I was doing fine but when the gym slid so did the eating. Im back worse than ever. I can never seem to stay full. Ill eat a big dinner and try n fill up on veg etc but little while later starving again. Its the volume....Anyone help with that plz?

Sorry to read that man.

You mean you no longer feel physically full and have to?

Fat and protein help with satiety.

Sugar and refined carbs will create an insulin response and mop up the fats from your bloodstream, causing you to feel hungry again.

So avoiding sweet deserts can help.

I find even 70% dark chocolate can make me hungry again, despite feeling too full before I had it.

You can drink some water before you eat, and while you eat - which helps with physical fullness.
May as well put some Apple cider vinegar in the water before.

And load up on veg first - save the carbs until after you've eaten some veg.

Eat slower, mindfully (not in front of the telly - but watching and paying attention to your food), with smaller plates and smaller cutlery.

And make the food fill your smaller bowls and plates.

Interesting podcast I listened to recently which covers some of this:

Part 1:

Part 2:

He does say that calorie tracking is better for rapid and more reliable weight loss though, but his conclusions match what I feel very much - that a more natural and mindful approach to calorie control by listening to your body is the way to go.

Fasting will help you gain control of hunger signals and make you realise that nothing terrible is going to happen when you're hungry. And once you're hungry you just stay there, if anything it gets easier - it's not some horrible descent.

Skipping breakfast works for me, especially when I eat clean.

So first meal is a healthy and massive salad at lunch.

Some research suggests that even eating the same calories but with a gap will lead to fat loss. Massive health benefits to fasting too, and gets your gherlin and hunger signals under control.

Often we mistake thirst for hunger, so drinking plenty of water is a good strategy.

Caffeine suppresses your hunger to an extent. I drink green tea throughout the day and that's beneficial for lots of reasons.

If you've done all that you still don't feel satisfied from your food it may indicate you're not giving your body what it needs - e.g. more salt, more protein or fat, more carbs even. One of your macros or micro nutrients may be lacking.

Don't trust sugar cravings or stuff like that though - that's because the stuff is crack.

Hope that helps.

Best of luck

davyK

superflyninja wrote:

Sigh. Long story short....not been to the gym regularly in a year now. All my swole is now blubber. Im getting some walking in daily and have some weights at home. So have started on that side again to keep me going until I can get back to gym again. But my main issue is the eating. I was doing fine but when the gym slid so did the eating. Im back worse than ever. I can never seem to stay full. Ill eat a big dinner and try n fill up on veg etc but little while later starving again. Its the volume....Anyone help with that plz?

Hunger is one thing I don't have a problem with on the slimmingworld programme.

Foods are split into free and speed. You can have as much as you want of both each meal - but - you must have 1/3 of your plate covered with speed food.

Speed is most veg and fruit. There are some exceptions. Free is lean meat, potatoes, pasta etc.

There is also healthy A and healthy B. You must have a ration of each every day.

A is bread (wholemeal - approx. 2 small slices) or cereal (certain types - I find it easier to just go for Weetabix or shredded wheat as your ration is two of those - saves fannying about weighing and measuring)

B is dairy - milk, cheese etc. I take the 250ml of semi skimmed.

So my breakfast is usually my cereal with 200ml of milk (50m for error, tea etc which I rarely do) and then I pile on speed fruit (strawberries, raspberries, blueberries)

I rarely get hungry before lunch.

Lunch is usually a salad (unlimited) with either tuna, salmon or chicken. (again that's free - no measuring required - but remember 1/3 speed salad)

Dinner is usually meat and veg with potatoes/pasta/rice which allows for almost anything - but the secret is it must be made from scratch.

There is sinful food that must be rationed. It's the usual stuff you would think. You have a sin ration for each day (20 for men). You get a book and an app & website that "sins" branded foods, and there is a sin calculator that uses the nutrition info on the packaging.

You can count extra bread and dairy as sins if you want.

Sauces, gravy, cooking oil , butter etc all have sin values , so it's easy to go over budget if you aren't too careful. And it's why you need to make meals yourself. Eating in restaurants really is hazardous because you don't know how things are cooked. This is tougher part of the programme - planning and making evening meals.

Booze is another hazard, You can "sin" it - 1 whiskey is 4 sins for example. Beer and wine are sky high so are pretty much off the programme.

Between meals can be free or sin foods - up to you.

After a couple of days on this , my hunger went. Between meal eating has more or less gone now. I take a banana occasionally mid morning (it's free but not speed on this scheme).

When you fall off the wagon there is a trigger effect - you start craving the shit food again - so it's important to get back on the wagon as soon as possible. Drink is the enemy as it lowers the will and the next day features mad cravings.

I am consistently losing 2-3lbs a week on this and I'm rarely hungry.

hylian_elf

I find a coffee helps me stay full between meals.

Skerret

I ate a chunk of butter earlier and had bacon, mushrooms, 4 eggs with kale for tea (in butter) and have been snacking on raw cacao, nuts, quark, plus have started eating organic cream from the tub as a snack. Keto is life

Skerret

Also carbs are the fuck, sell them to unsuspecting slobs

Tempy

Carbs are what is best in life

davyK

hylian_elf wrote:

I find a coffee helps me stay full between meals.

Coffee is good. It's free on my regime as long as you leave out milk and sugar.

I love a coffee from my Nespresso machine with a few squares of 80-90% chocolate. I build that into my daily sin ration for most evenings.

Dan

Hand pour filter coffee with Mylk is the way forward.

You can get one with a Pact deal:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pact+coffee+v60+offer

http://welcome.pactcoffee.com/list2/
http://welcome.pactcoffee.com/pactartfinder/
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/membership/article/20150730-membership-static-Pact-Coffee---free-v60-starter-kit-0

I guess they get a kick back so whoever you like best

Mylk:
https://www.rebel-kitchen.com/products/mylk/

By far the best plant milk I've had now - and tried a lot.

Well actually EcoMill almond milk was great if I remember correctly but it was so expensive, and may not compare that well.

Otherwise gold top as mentioned is good though - I just skimmed some of the fat off myself. Could try that Dante?

Nestle kill babies so I don't go anywhere near Nespresso, although I do use my Tassimo sometimes to mix it up. Seems so wasteful using any type of pod system though.

Coffee/caffeine can increase your cortisol levels though which increases fat deposition
Supposedly your body gets used it to and normalises cortisol production but not sure about that, and I imagine that's when the coffee basically has no effect - if you get a buzz you're likely getting elevated cortisol.

Theanine in tea helps prevent caffeine jitters and may help with cortisol too - it's calming.

Bad stress really is bad.

Good moderate stress (exercise, fasting) is great.
Then you get that whole area of "stress activated foods" or sirtuins
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirtuin

http://sirtfooddiet.net/

Food that supposedly mimic the effects of exercise and fasting by activating the same metabolic pathways. Really interesting if you're a food geek.

Stuff like chilli, matcha, cocoa, turmeric

Even if you don't think it's going to have any metabolic effect, they're certainly healthy compounds full of polyphenols.

hylian_elf

Skerret wrote:

Keto is life

Keto is pointless.

Keep to protein target, rest can be mixture of carbs and fats as you like. Bingo. Just keep all food to good wholesome unprocessed stuff.

davyK

hylian_elf wrote:

Skerret wrote:

Keto is life

Keto is pointless. Keep to protein target, rest can be mixture of carbs and fats as you like. Bingo. Just keep all food to good wholesome unprocessed stuff.

That is, essentially, what I am doing. Home cooked food in the main. With not going overboard on fat and sugar.

hylian_elf

I came across the following re low fat vs. low carb

https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb-for-weight-loss/

Dan

There's an argument for metabolic flexibility though regarding ketosis

Muscles that can run off carbs or fat.

If you fast you can enter ketosis during the fasted state - and do fasted exercise in ketosis.
The exercise will promote ketosis too as you more quickly deplete glycogen from your muscles.

I wouldn't want to go into ketosis regularly from not having daily carbs though.

Need carbs for testosterone and happiness.

Warrior diet, or a morning fast followed by whole foods, and most carbs in the evening after veg makes a lot of sense I think.

I don't think excluding whole macros makes any sense really.

Having a break from eating (fasting) is great though.

Still, that sounds like good food, except I'd swap the bacon (as tasty as it is) with sardines, and the cream with yoghurt (full fat greek if you like), and I'd feel like crap without a tonne of veg and salad too personally.

And anything that excludes bananas - well bananas are life.

Saw this last night which is funny:
18268652_1359321910817719_2005155319654257964_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=56c28df02dcd6277a3bb4c72cb06c0fd&oe=5B333F85

18268652_1359321910817719_2005155319654257964_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=56c28df02dcd6277a3bb4c72cb06c0fd&oe=5B333F85

Dan

Aye, same conclusion as this (which I haven't read yet - only found this guy through the SSD podcast because of the above chart):

http://physiqonomics.com/fat-loss/

Roujin

I too have done some very in depth research and I discovered the following about dieting and weight loss:

Calories In < Calories Out

Mind = fucking blown.

Skerret

hylian_elf wrote:

Skerret wrote:

Keto is life

Keto is pointless.

Keep to protein target, rest can be mixture of carbs and fats as you like. Bingo. Just keep all food to good wholesome unprocessed stuff.

Elf this is patently untrue, keto done right is excellent. I sleep better, have more focus, much more even energy levels, have lost a little strength during the transition but have now gained it back and then some (chins at a record high now), have improved joint health and am as lean as a bean. I have some carbs, I'm operating in the sub 30 bracket. Fat adapted yo

Also have plenty of veg, good nutrient profile.

Also I have no craving for carby things and my appetite is more easily sated. I replace carbs with podcasts it works wellll.

Rouj is right though, calorie deficit regardless.

Skerret

Yes butter in coffee is shite

Roujin

Yes, take your scientific micro/macro nutrient war to the appropriate thread, this is the normies thread of trying to drop some lbs, not the buffguy mcswole acadamy thred.

Skerret

Good heavens man if people just listened to me they'd drop more lb and quicker, get on booooard

Rouj did u vote for trump

PS good work Davy, smash it dead

Roujin

I voted for all the horses to have a good time.

nick_md

I'm fucked atm, eating salads, sardines, spinach, mackerel, eggs and cheese, then topping it off with a bottle of red or a pack of lager. I don't think my body knows what to do.

Gonna replace the wine/beer with spirits and try some exercise in the mix. I haven't blazed for 4 weeks now, which as it happens has coincided with my booze increase. I think the green is better for my health tbh, maybe I'll go back to that. The paunch is unsightly.

The Daddy

Fucking love a bit of butter in my morning espresso like.

Dan

And mentioned that before, but what keto, paleo, warrior diet, wild diet, even atkins have in common is not eating processed food.

So you could simply do:
Remove processed food
Eat lotsa veg
Fast

And it'd be very difficult not to lose weight, and be healthier and feel better, regardless of calorie counting.

Didn't read Elf's link, but the point the link I gave made is simply that a calorie deficit will lead to wait loss - which is blindingly obvious, but the point is all but fasting typically don't mention the calorie deficit as being the cause.

Having said that, there's definitely something in ketosis and fasting.
There have been mice studies done at least where mice were fed the same calories each day, one group with a morning fast, one without. Those eating throughout the day without a fast gained a lot more weight and were less healthy.

So if you want to get into complexity beyond calorie deficits there's loads there.

That graph guy actually does keto and puts coconut oil in coffee I think.

If you're in ketosis then having MCTs makes sense.

I tried some black coffee with coconut oil when fasting and it was pretty good for keeping hunger at bay really.

When did you start keto Skerr? Didn't realise you had.

But yeah, I couldn't give up fruit personally. When I do a 24 hour ish fast I'll definitely be going into ketosis though.

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