FUCK. OFF.

There’s so much stuff they didn’t have to do.

The whole thing has been a shitshow of epic proportions by a bunch of cunts that will be largely unaffected by the fall out.

And all to appease a handful of rich right wingers that operated as an unelected party within a party.

Kara_Jane_Adams wrote:

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

Kara_Jane_Adams wrote:

All I’m saying is that a stronger opposition would have been nice.

In an ideal world.

By voting against triggering art 50?

For one.

His own MPs were so pissed off by his inaction in the lead up to the referendum that many resigned, a vote of no confidence was held which he lost 172-40.

He was a shit leader of the opposition and still is.

I suspect I really can't help you, but there are stats showing he made more appearances than all lib Dems combined, and many other labour and Tory figures, in the referendum.
Cinty has linked to a QnA he did with young people which was spotless.

You can look for these by yourself if you've the inclination to test your assertions of "inactivity" and a causative link between the referendum and the second vote.

The coup was organised to depose him on ideological grounds, pure and simple.

But anyway, back to article 50. The strong leadership move, then, would be to vote against it, two or three months out from the referendum or whenever it was.

How many of those who are now touted as candidates for leadership of the Labour party spoke against that, or voted against it? I assume we can rule Ken Clarke out?

So what? Got any point on the substance?

Yep, didn't think so.

Please can someone fetch the 17 posts or so from the last 6-18 month period where I predicted that "Brexit will 100% be corbo's fault", I'm too lazy.

It was, what do you call it, pointed overstatement. The intention was to point out that narratives aimed at Corbyn when he is simply not in charge, are diversion and division. Notice that a lot of the people who tell you or brief the journals these stories (so often you simply repeat them without looking at the evidence of of the number of rallies he spoke at, with no press coverage) are the very same who tell you or brief that he cannot be leader after a VONC now, which is a situation where precisely he would fall to be judged on his actions.

By saying, in response, Brexit is 100% Corbyn's fault, I save a lot of words and hopefully make you realise how stupid it is to focus on his fault in where we are. But, you know, keep on going - I'm a dick Yadda Yadda

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

It was, what do you call it, pointed overstatement. The intention was to point out that narratives aimed at Corbyn when he is simply not in charge, are diversion and division. Notice that a lot of the people who tell you or brief the journals these stories (so often you simply repeat them without looking at the evidence of of the number of rallies he spoke at, with no press coverage) are the very same who tell you or brief that he cannot be leader after a VONC now, which is a situation where precisely he would fall to be judged on his actions. By saying, in response, Brexit is 100% Corbyn's fault, I save a lot of words and hopefully make you realise how stupid it is to focus on his fault in where we are. But, you know, keep on going - I'm a dick Yadda Yadda

Are they fuckers like and I haven’t called you a dick, I don’t know you well enough for that kind of thing.

And I’m not focusing on anything.

It’s just me, a mouthy, deeply confused cunt on a forum board trying to understand how I ended up here.

Read anything more into it and that’s on you.

I didn’t realise I had to self edit to fit a political narrative.

dynamiteReady wrote:

How about the converse of that? What has Corbyn directly achieved?

I dont put Corbyn on any pedestal, I have my gripes.
I would challenge this question though with another question.
What has any leader of the opposition achieved?

Miliband, Hague, IBS?

I would argue at the very least Corbyn gained seats and denied the Tories a majority.

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

I've decided to not waste time debating randoa online

That’s a weird random insult.

This is why I gave up on social media.

Catch you on the flipside.

LivDiv wrote:

What has any leader of the opposition achieved?

Fair point.

@Gnozo - Wish everyone else saw it your way. Most especially the people who are in position to make changes and support him. So yeah. I get your point in saying that the problem is not Corbyn himself.

Arguing the other side, that he's not strong enough to 'enforce/engender' support, has some merit, but that's what the Cons are all about. Saying and doing anything for a turn behind the wheel.

Perhaps there really is no middle ground, and what Blair really did, was out con the Cons themselves...

It's a real catch 22...

Corbyn and the project formed around him has been proposing a turn away from the ruinous policies of the last thirty-forty years and trying to reignite the notions of socialism, class consciousness and not just settling for voting for the least worst option. Not always doing those things in the most polished and professional way, obviously but that’s what you’re going to get when the people at the top of the party have failed to impose any convincing vision or purpose, lost their bearings and their roots and it’s left to a fusty old backbencher.

The last Labour election manifesto and the things talked about in the run up to the upcoming election are some of most hopeful, positive and humane policies I’ve seen put forward by a major party in my lifetime. The kind of thing I’d read that the Labour Party was meant to be about, but never actually seen for myself.

None of those things looked like happening under recent versions of the Labour Party (Miliband was grasping towards something similar but hamstrung by the orthodoxies and accepted wisdom of the New Labour era) - and it’s debatable if we’ll see them again were the party reclaimed by those who’ve undermined him at every step of the way. I’m not optimistic, as you can probably tell.

I don’t know why he bothered frankly as all people have done is fucking moan and whinge about a man who was on their side and trying to help them.

And for clarification, Monkey was right. I was drunk. That happens a lot. Too much. Sorry and peace.

Aye, take care cinty. Hope you can sort out your issues. Don't stay away too long now ye hear?

It’s starting to look like this deal is going to pass. ERG appear to be on board, John Mann is claiming that “more than nine” Labour MPs will back it. Johnson might just have the numbers.

We can all then look forward to a Tory majority at the GE and the end of the union.

Happy Friday, everyone.