The British Politics Thread - The Bear and Badger

JonB

If the results of the 2019 election mean anything, they reveal an overwhelming rejection of centrism.

I like this (long) piece from David Graeber.
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/01/13/the-center-blows-itself-up-care-and-spite-in-the-brexit-election/

Armitage_Shankburn

AndCallMeCharlie wrote:

I just cant see Long-Bailey winning a GE, of the candidates Starmer looks the part which is (like it or not) a major factor in a GE.

This leader will not get to a GE.

AndCallMeCharlie

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

AndCallMeCharlie wrote:

I just cant see Long-Bailey winning a GE, of the candidates Starmer looks the part which is (like it or not) a major factor in a GE.

This leader will not get to a GE.

Why?

Roujin

Didn't Starmer draft Labour's brexit policies?

If so, the Tpries will just use that to shoot him down, they will either say he has the same stance as Corbyn, i.e. he doesn't know/is trying to trick part of the electorate by not disclosing his position by not making it clear, or they will say he's a remainer, he drew up the policies for labour, boo remoaners trying to ignore the will if the people, etc.

Jess Philips for me, an unapologetic socialist, yes pls, Kier Starmer just seems like having a second attempt at a David Milliband blairite successor to me. Get these fucking butthurt salty careerist politicians out of here already, I know ur mad u didn't get get to live the dream after Brown but pls understand your time has passed and we need actual change in this country, not just diet conservatives in red ties kthx.

LivDiv

You realise he has only been an MP since 2015 (selected 2014) and before that he was a human rights lawyer right?

Roujin

I don't mean hes a careerist, I mean the labour mps lining up to back him.

LivDiv

And the Brexit policy stuff.
He has publicly conceded that we are leaving while Phillip's got caught out on rejoining.

LivDiv

Roujin wrote:

I don't mean hes a careerist, I mean the labour mps lining up to back him.

They might get a bit of a shock.

I'm walking the dog so cant link but google some of his history and opinions on the free market

He might have a good haircut but he isnt Blair.

Funkstain

I do think Starmer is getting a bit of a raw deal here. Unless anyone can give me stuff on him?

Look into people's histories, their speeches, articles, voting histories. There's interesting stuff there for sure, on Long-Bailey, Starmer, Thornberry. Can't find much on Nandy, and I've already given up on Philips because there just isn't anything there.

LarryDavid

Thornberry offended the Brexit masses by mockingly tweeting that St George’s flag a few years ago. Can’t have the metropolitan elite sneering at our proud nation and it’s loyal subjects. (I don’t particularly like her, but that’s a non starter in these foul times in which tatty patriotism is considered mandatory)

JonB

Roujin wrote:

Jess Philips for me, an unapologetic socialist, yes pls, Kier Starmer just seems like having a second attempt at a David Milliband blairite successor to me. Get these fucking butthurt salty careerist politicians out of here already, I know ur mad u didn't get get to live the dream after Brown but pls understand your time has passed and we need actual change in this country, not just diet conservatives in red ties kthx.

Jess Philips is a socialist? I've not seen any evidence of that. I'd also say she's more of a careerist than any of them, just going at it a different way with her 'says-it-like-it-is-with-a-regional-accent' schtick. Anyway, she's far too divisive to be leader.

JonB

I mean, I don't rate or don't know much about the others, but Philips would be the one I definitely wouldn't want at all.

Roujin

Hmmm, well I'm off to do some digging, i heard her on the radio getting interviewed for a bit the other day and I'm sure I've seen snippets of her doing some fairly well received bits and pieces in the commons but now im starting to wonder if I have her confused with someone else as this is some stronk feedback coming in.

mistercrayon

As if anybody can do tell what a prime minister should look like.

Our last three were Cameron, May and Johnson.

(I guess white- which rules out Nandy.

)

AndCallMeCharlie

JonB wrote:

If the results of the 2019 election mean anything, they reveal an overwhelming rejection of centrism.

I like this (long) piece from David Graeber. https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2020/01/13/the-center-blows-itself-up-care-and-spite-in-the-brexit-election/

"If the results of the 2019 election mean anything, they reveal an overwhelming rejection of centrism"
Eh, OK...

AndCallMeCharlie

mistercrayon wrote:

(I guess white- which rules out Nandy. )

Correct

RedDave2

Roujin wrote:

butthurt salty careerist politicians

For a second, I misread this and thought you wrote 'buttery salted caramels politicians'. Now I am hungry. This is what happens when you let socialists in.

I would vote for the buttery salted caramel party.

Diluted Dante

Johnson says the Tories had to pick up from the mess left by Labour. He says he is putting more money into the NHS.

Fucking hell, they've been in power for a decade, but it's still Labours fault.

LarryDavid

Five years of this unbearable cunt. It’s going to be hideous.

EDIT: Boris, not Dante

JMW

Yep. We have no idea how long Dante will be here.

acemuzzy

Diluted Dante wrote:

Johnson says the Tories had to pick up from the mess left by Labour. He says he is putting more money into the NHS.

Fucking hell, they've been in power for a decade, but it's still Labours fault.

BUT THEY WROTE A NOTE SAYING THERE WAS NO MONEY LEFT!

davyK

Well we are up and running again here in NI.

Early signs are good. Honeymoon period and all that - they are rebuffing press challenges about money as a team.

A few cans have been kicked down the road of course - Irish Language and victims of the past (still no defn of victim) and there's the ex-soldier prosecutions thing floating about too.

In all honesty that particular boil will only be lanced by granting immunity to all which will be hard to swallow on both sides. But the early releases were too. I believe immunity is a pre-condition to folk learning the truth about how their loved ones died.

Re victim reparations, I can see the argument for terrorists being killed/injured being considered a victim. The "They wouldn't have done it but for........ " argument but it's a stretch to my sensibilities. We didn't all join up. I think it's a step too far to equate someone being blown up by a bomb with someone who was killed setting a bomb that went off prematurely. But that's only my opinion on the spectrum here.

Minnesänger

davyK wrote:

Well we are up and running again here in NI.

Early signs are good. Honeymoon period and all that - they are rebuffing press challenges about money as a team.

A few cans have been kicked down the road of course - Irish Language and victims of the past (still no defn of victim) and there's the ex-soldier prosecutions thing floating about too.

In all honesty that particular boil will only be lanced by granting immunity to all which will be hard to swallow on both sides. But the early releases were too. I believe immunity is a pre-condition to folk learning the truth about how their loved ones died.

Re victim reparations, I can see the argument for terrorists being killed/injured being considered a victim. The "They wouldn't have done it but for........ " argument but it's a stretch to my sensibilities. We didn't all join up. I think it's a step too far to equate someone being blown up by a bomb with someone who was killed setting a bomb that went off prematurely. But that's only my opinion on the spectrum here.

Yeah, I’m super cautious here. The pragmatist is me says get everything sorted as soon as possible - broad definitions or not, swallow your pride and try to put a full stop at the end of it.

But, I wasn’t a part of it. I can’t begin to comprehend how hard it must be to “pragmatically” forgive people who targeted civilians. How those who refused to take part in those actions must feel.

There’s no help here, just sympathy....sorry Davy.

davyK

I was part of it but not nearly as much as people who lost loved ones. In many ways I have no dog in the fight as I wasn't directly affected by it.

However I would argue that I was affected by it in some way. I've no doubt my way of thinking was changed by it. I'd say my parents were probably more affected by it due to stress of bringing up kids in the middle of it.

Like most who live here. We don't have a voice. Generally speaking NI is a community of extremes and the moderates currently have no say in anything.

LarryDavid

Dozens of crowdfunding pages set up to pay for Big Ben to bong on Brexit Day have so far raised almost no money.

The campaigns were launched after Boris Johnson suggested that members of the public could meet the £500,000 cost of the famous bell ringing at 11pm on 31 January, when the UK leaves the EU.

Almost 30 pages on the GoFundMe crowdfunding website are trying to raise the money, but the vast majority have not received a single donation.

The few that have received support have so far raised £551 - a tiny fraction of the amount needed.

Despite the muted response, Tory MP Mark Francois, who has led the campaign for Big Ben to ring on 31 January, predicted that the fundraising target would be met within two days...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/big-ben-brexit-bong-crowdfund-donate-boris-johnson-eu-a9284536.html

Getting the public to have a whip round to pay for something that: a)no one cares about, b) is of zero benefit to anyone but loons and Tory MP's and c) is the responsibility of the people supposedly running the country is such a gloriously Tory idea.

LivDiv

What an embarrassment Mark Francois is.
Not just to us remainers and left wing voters, he is an embarrassment to leavers and the Tories as well.

I suspect he will be told to shut the fuck up after this.

Tempy

The only thing Francois is good for is being a recurring Cold War Steve character

poprock

Just look at him. Massive gammon.

RedDave2

I don't like to exaggerate but I can confidently say that Mark francois is the worst thing about brexit.

davyK

It's good practice for paying for everything through the nose from now on though.

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