The other bullshit argument is "why impeachment now? Just wait till the election results come out".

What, the election that he is abusing his power to interfere with? Great idea.

Bill Maher is an absolute twat, so i'm not watching a video of his, but if Trump loses and refuses to leave he's fucked.

Unless we have a hanging chad situation where he can go through the courts if he loses the electoral collage, the Rebublicans in the Senate will realise that it would be electoral suicide for them to back him. Trump personally might be bulletproof, but they aren't. They have to concede. If his own party conceded, he has no legitimacy, and no branch of government will follow his orders.

GooberTheHat wrote:

The other bullshit argument is "why impeachment now? Just wait till the election results come out". What, the election that he is abusing his power to interfere with? Great idea.

Also, this goes back to what Muzzy said. They are unconnected things. Elections are not the procedure to charge a sitting president with a crime. Impeachment is.

Yeah I don't see him staying on if impeached. Surely not? I mean isn't that kinda what impeachment means?

I'm far from convinced he'll be impeached though, given the partisan "jury". It's making a mockery of the whole thing. The defence's six facts are just lol, but it seems painfully irrelevant.

The election though, I think there's a glimmer of hope there at least.

Yeah, he won't be impeached, because the process is bollocks. If he is though, by some miracle, it means he's lost the party and Pence has backing to step in.

He could lose the election though, especially if hes up against Sanders.

The country that voted for G W Bush twice. 
I hold no hope.

I like Warren but she is a bit hillary lite. But I don't mean in terms of style. I mean that the 'chosen one' over bernie would be the wrong move. (assuming reports are correct and iowa gave bernie the thumbs up)

GooberTheHat wrote:

While I would love Bernie to get the Pres, you have to appreciate how the word "socialist" is perceived in the US. There is a real fear/hatred for it in a lot of people, and adding "democrat" to the front doesn't change that perception for many.

It will be used as a stick to beat him with, and that line of attack will resonate with lots of voters (especially older white people). So concerns about his electability do have some reasonable basis.

This is my concern. This places fandom for Bernie does not in any way shape or form correlate with working class American voters and their perception of socialism.

At this point all of the main front runners have a stick to beat them. Warren and bernie are socialist. Warren is part of the banking elite like hillary, Biden, rightly or wrongly, will have the Ukraine issue with his son hanging over him if he gets the nod. The rebuplicans have found success in playing dirty. It worked against hillary and it will be the norm for the foreseeable no matter who gets through. Even if the dem candidate was squeaky clean, the republicans will make something up. Just think about the Clinton pizza paedo thing. So I don't think that's really a fair issue.

Besides, sanders is in the running again for the second time. There is support there.

And its worth bearing in mind: sanders did really well in that fox town Hall meeting when he answered the questions about his policies and ideals. Most Americans don't like socialism because they think it takes from them. A smart person like sanders has shown there is some success in explaining what it brings and also exposing what the current form of capatilism takes.

But regardless of whether its sanders or not, the point being how does the Democrats once again find them at a point where the person they put forward may not be the popular choice among those who voted? If sanders is that guy, they need to be 100 percent behind him. If they didn't want him, they should never have let him get this fair.

GooberTheHat wrote:

Warren has never claimed to be a socialist though. Bernie still does (although he prefixes it with democratic).

He could have exactly the same policy proposals as he has now, and describe himself as a progressive democrat and no one would bat an eyelid. His insistence on using the term socialist will lose him more votes than it gains him.

And yet despite this, he still is neck and neck in terms of popularity and maybe even ahead. He still has raised the money to mount a challenge. Twice.

Maybe the stuff about Americans not understanding his message is a bit over blown. Just saying.

GooberTheHat wrote:

He hasn't faced a sustained attack yet. The democratic primaries can be bitter, but they never really go for the jugular. Trump will.

Again, he will no matter who is in front of him. That's his game plan. I have faith that sanders, Warren or even Biden will bite back directly in a way hilery didn't that might just nutralise him.

If sanders was this much trouble as a candidate, he should not have been allowed run.

And just to be clear, I want Bernie to win, I'm just saying there is a reason why some Democrats are concerned he is less electable than Biden or Warren.

I can imagine Bernie getting to one of the presidential debates and just yelling "you motherfucker!!" in exceptional rabbinical fashion and throwing summat at somebody. And that's why anyone with a functional conscience should vote for him.

Let the anti-Trump (Bernie!) run.
Let's see where it leads.

If anyone hasn't seen Trumps unveiling of the Israel/Palestine deal allow me to summarise.

Israel:



Palestine: