Brexit: Boris' Big Belgian Bangers
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The left's defining policy - the distrubution of wealth, has consistently failed. It's getting worse, and not just here. The world didn't learn a thing after the last global recession. Not one fucking thing. The only united group left standing are the rich, and if China and Russia are anything to go by the world shows no signs of changing in the next 50 yrs and climate change is only going to exacerbate the problem for the next 300.
I'm off to play VR for a decade or until the electricity runs out."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob -
This is completely standard. Tories used to moan about it when in opposition. The govt gets priority, opposition gets some little soundbite at the end. Even the PM is usually reduced to a few sentences. It's what spawned the Miliband and Osborne bizarre interviews where they give the same answer to every question. To make sure that's the line that gets on the news. It's why David Cameron always gives his one line then walks straight off to avoid any follow up that might make it's way on to the tv instead. That's also why Corbyn's speech wasn't covered. Speeches aren't covered unless there's some controversy or they're major events so the broadcasters can wrap it up in some wider story. They're deemed too boring.Armitage_Shankburn wrote:For example, if you want to find out policy you have to watch the full McDonnell clip, the news clip edits it down to a 10sec bit.
Re THE NORTH (although really it's loads of places especially the Midlands) - Leaving will fuck these places. It's that simple. Corbyn is on board with that because challenging it is too difficult and too risky. Fine. I was asked what I would do and it wouldn't be that. Corbyn's choice may come back to bite him. Maybe my choice would have fucked Labour, maybe it would have hived off enough support for Brexit from working class areas that it becomes untenable and the Tories would already be gone by now. Who knows? You don't. His policy is literally 'ambiguity'. It wouldn't surprise me if he cops some of the blame at the end of that. Certainly internal Labour opponents will use it against him at some point. If you really want the Tories to own Brexit, don't support it. It's just a difference of opinion I'm afraid.
Re the rest - If being a socialist requires thinking the socialist leader is wonderful at all times, count me out. Outing someone as a centrist is the feeblest, twitter-grade, nutcase argument going. Well done. -
I agree with all of this, it's just the bit in bold where there's an issue. You think he can do it, I don't. That's it. One of us is wrong and one of us is right and neither of us know which is which yet.Armitage_Shankburn wrote:I suppose what is key to my analysis is this. Brexit isn't the issue. It's not the disease. It's a SYMPTOM of the disease. That disease is a free for all establishment mentality, in the press, in the other media, in the services industry, and in politics. Everything and everyone is roleplaying some great British success story in their head and telling themselves they're the real heirs to the great imperialist gentry / the self made man. They are disfunctional, they are in important respects utterly ignorant, and they combine that with unswerving arrogance / the presentation of unshaking conviction. Disaster after disaster, the bank crash, Grenfell, the Brexit negotiations, no self-examination happens. They blame others. They have been blaming and framing the EU for three decades. After Brexit, the Tory party which is emblematic of these problems (since blairism is dead, and was anyway a foil to the tories, a temporary pitch to their base) has to go. The Eton boys, the Oxford PPE grads who've only ever been spads before being given a safe seat - that all has to go. Only Corbyn /McDonnell can do this without blood and pain and pogroms etc etc. But it has to be done.
Although I do think he can get in next time because holy fuck look at the alternative. -
SpaceGazelle wrote:I like Corbyn but the chances of him getting into power, in a nation as consevative as England, are so slim. I reckon if you had a vote today May would still get in. It's all a bit depressing, and I'm losing the will to fight. All I'm hoping for at this stage is May's shitty fucking deal.
The only reason the Tories are as high in the polls as they are is Brexit. Take that away and they are fucked. -
SpaceGazelle wrote:It's all a bit depressing, and I'm losing the will to fight. All I'm hoping for at this stage is May's shitty fucking deal.
I told yous this was what will happen. The uqicker the better. With each passing day, jobs and confidence is lost.
Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms -
Armitage_Shankburn wrote:
I told yous this was what will happen. The uqicker the better. With each passing day, jobs and confidence is lost.SpaceGazelle wrote:It's all a bit depressing, and I'm losing the will to fight. All I'm hoping for at this stage is May's shitty fucking deal.
I was naive enough to hope for some form of softening, didnt believe even May could be this stubborn.
Yeah, just get this deal through now and get CU etc as part of the backstop solution. -
Diluted Dante wrote:
The only reason the Tories are as high in the polls as they are is Brexit. Take that away and they are fucked.SpaceGazelle wrote:I like Corbyn but the chances of him getting into power, in a nation as consevative as England, are so slim. I reckon if you had a vote today May would still get in. It's all a bit depressing, and I'm losing the will to fight. All I'm hoping for at this stage is May's shitty fucking deal.
In the last 40 yrs there's been Blair (and Brown via Blair). One rightwing Labour PM. The chances of a leftwing Labour PM getting in seem vanishingly small tbh."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob -
What, looking at history?"Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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There’s definitely a political shift going on, not just in the U.K. but around the world. The past is looking like a less reliable guide to the future than it seemed even 5 years ago. -
Diluted Dante wrote:No, ignoring recent history and current events.
Such as? Current trends are more capitalism, followed by an extra helping of European capitalism, with a side order of global capitalism. The youth have always been much more leftwing. I don't see any change in recent history at all. If things were going to change it'd happened after the last recession, but it didn't."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob -
Actually, there's been a small shift in that people are moaning about house prices instead of food prices."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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A few key shifts from around the world:
The rise of populism
The death of the political centre
The word socialism being reclaimed in the US
The massive engagement with Labour in the U.K.
The phrase ‘late-capitalism’ entering the language -
I think you mean Brexit, Trump, the abandonment of socialism by the working classes and the rise of the right. Yay!"Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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Socialism was abandoned in the 80s, it’s now returning to the conversation.
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I bet Amazon is shitting itself."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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Look, I'm jaded, and I'd love to see it, but it's not going to happen."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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So you think that societal progress has now halted and this is the way things will be forever?
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I mean, before Trump was elected, that wasn’t going to happen, same with Brexit. And neither of those things were running neck and neck in polls until the final days of their campaigns.
Ruling out a Corbyn government seems daft all things considered. -
I'm ruling it out because politics is lurching to the far right. The only unexpected thing about it is the speed. I think isolationism might be the defining politics of the next few decades and it'll be awful."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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SpaceGazelle wrote:I'm ruling it out because politics is lurching to the far right.
https://pollofpolls.eu/GB -
Britain has form for bottling it at the booth. Like I say, I'm feeling particularly jaded with all this Brexit shit."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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SpaceGazelle wrote:I'm ruling it out because politics is lurching to the far right. The only unexpected thing about it is the speed. I think isolationism might be the defining politics of the next few decades and it'll be awful.
I don’t know if that’s entirely true. Admittedly, there’s been more right success than left recently, but the massive numbers of Labour Party members here (it’s now the biggest political party in Europe by number of members) plus the rise of democratic socialism in the States offer a counterpoint.
We aren’t lurching to the right, people are becoming dissatisfied with the way things are.
The right has the quick and easy answers which makes it easier for them to capitalise on this dissatisfaction, but the left is getting its act together and this will continue. The younger generation is more progressive than that which has come before, and as most of them are locked out of property ownership, are less likely to shift rightwards as they age. -
SpaceGazelle wrote:Britain has form for bottling it at the booth. Like I say, I'm feeling particularly jaded with all this Brexit shit.
Ironically, Brexit is the exact thing that Britain didn’t bottle in the booth, and which couldn’t have been predicted based on Britain’s form. -
Kind of weird how we’ve switched pessimist/optimist positions from the climate change debate.
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We'll see what happens. I'm still unconvinced about a deal going through, nevermind Corbyn getting in. Think I'll stay out the conversion until I see a glimmer of hope."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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Yossarian wrote:Kind of weird how we’ve switched pessimist/optimist positions from the climate change debate.
Long term I think it'll work out, but I mean that as someone who studied astronomy."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob -
Apart from the Sun blowing up. That's going to be hard to fix."Plus he wore shorts like a total cunt" - Bob
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Ironically The Sun blowing up may solve some of the political problems.SpaceGazelle wrote:Apart from the Sun blowing up. That's going to be hard to fix.
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