Racist
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equinox_code wrote:Got no energy for tiptoeing around criticism of Israel. We need to move on from the place where every criticism needs to incorporate mention of all the things we aren’t saying. Enough with the disclaimers and pre-amblesFacewon wrote:equinox_code wrote:Got no energy for tiptoeing around criticism of Israel. We need to move on from the place where every criticism needs to incorporate mention of all the things we aren’t saying. Enough with the disclaimers and pre-ambles
It'd be nice, but with the way folks use "classical liberal" principles as memes to say whatever BS they want, it's going to be a while before we don't have to do the dance. And I'll not hold it against folks wanting the clarity. It's possible for antisemitism to be a big problem and for false claims of antisemitism to be a problem.
What face means to say is "Of course, Israel has the right to defend itself".
Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms -
Ima say my Israel crit bona fides are all in order. Going all the way back to maroon room.
Also, feel like Davy was paraphrasing simon Blackburn's religion and respect essay and missed bits.I'm still great and you still love it. -
GooberTheHat wrote:I don't think your definitions of respect and tolerate are accurate there. In my mind respect has no inherent implication of liking.
I agree with you but I get the feeling a lot of people equate respect with something more than it should mean.
Tolerate sounds sniffy now too. I know what you mean. But tolerance is kinder than that - it is to accept despite not agreeing - which is a powerful thing really.
Respect is probably a better word but it has different meanings - some shoehorn deference into that. At least that's how I feel about it.Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009. -
I'm still great and you still love it.
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Facewon wrote:
I've seen that vid, it's shocking. Why the cop didn't approach and cuff the man as soon as he was on the floor, I don't understand. It does come across as a massive power trip.
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There really are some absolutely murderous cunts in police forces.
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I don't like to go by appearances, but I'd think twice about asking this guy for directions...
Come with g if you want to live... -
Was he the guy with some text etched on his gun?
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Just off of a union call where a rep from another Union stated that she was going to quit as a rep due to her organisation's support of Black Lives Matter UK.
She then went on a rant about how BLMUK is a fascist organisation who's leader had been interviewed on TV saying that he wanted to abolish the police, prisons and to make heroin freely available in Boots the Chemist.
Needless to say I was pretty gobsmacked. She ranted on for quite a bit before finishing by comparing BLM to Isis, the Taliban and the IRA - apparently they are "no different".
After the meeting I went online and looked about a bit and could find no credible articles that claimed anything of the sort - outside of hit pieces in the DM, Telegraph and Spectator.
Additionally, Joshua Virasmi, one of the key people in BLMUK, isn't actually a 'leader' or official spokesman for them as they don't actually have a hierarchical leadership structure - so whatever he says is his own opinion and not the overall policy of BLMUK anyway.
He has apparently said a lot about the stuff she claimed (outside of the stuff about drugs, but that just sounded like hysterical interpretation of a liberal drug policy) but I couldn't actually find anything that quoted him as such - just right wing sources falling over themselves to try and discredit him.
I don't know what the point of this post is really. I was just a bit blown away that someone whom I had some professional respect for seems to have completely misunderstood so much.Gamertag: gremill -
Right wing public hysteria over anything remotely liberal eg BLM.
They just keep repeating their Breitbart, DM, tabloids, fb and random internet blog sources as fact and relevant news.
Fake news and propaganda. It just worksSteam: Ruffnekk
Windows Live: mr of unlocking
Fightcade2: mrofunlocking -
Yeah, I can see where this has come from, but it's all bollocks.
People don't seem to understand what defund the police actually means, not helped by people like Starmer who is obstentially an ally intentionally misrepresenting it. I say intentionally because he's simply too smart and would be in contact with too many people who do understand it not to know what it means.
Abolishing prisons is more of an Americal thing, due to their insane incarceration rates, but there are still 14 private prisons in the UK, which I'd bet is something BLMUK would be aghainst. I suspect though more likely they would be concerned with sentencing guidelines, and how they are disproportionatly applied to black people in the UK.
As for heroin in boots, that will be decrimilasation of drug use, similar to Portugal, and probably better access to methadone for addicts. -
If you need to explain that your slogan doesn't mean what it says, then it's not much of a slogan. If it doesn't mean defunding the police, then its the worst slogan in history. If it does mean that, then people do know what it means and they don’t much like it. Either way, it's ridiculous. Defunding the police is what has been happening in Britain since 2010 until 2019. Labour fought the last two elections pledging to reverse police cuts. 75% of the vote in the 2019 GE was given to the two main parties who pledged to increase police numbers and funding.Diluted Dante wrote:Yeah, I can see where this has come from, but it's all bollocks. People don't seem to understand what defund the police actually means, not helped by people like Starmer who is obstentially an ally intentionally misrepresenting it. I say intentionally because he's simply too smart and would be in contact with too many people who do understand it not to know what it means. Abolishing prisons is more of an Americal thing, due to their insane incarceration rates, but there are still 14 private prisons in the UK, which I'd bet is something BLMUK would be aghainst. I suspect though more likely they would be concerned with sentencing guidelines, and how they are disproportionatly applied to black people in the UK. As for heroin in boots, that will be decrimilasation of drug use, similar to Portugal, and probably better access to methadone for addicts.
It's just wrong-headed to try and import that particular battle into Britain. In the US the cops turn up to protests in tanks, armed with machine guns. In Britain they get a little stick and sometimes a horse is there. If you mean reform, say reform. -
The skill in organising a reactionary event or movement such as a BLM protest is two-fold.
Firstly, you need to avoid the flotsam and jetsam - those who will latch onto any movement which can be used to cause a bit of disruption and chaos. Also there will be those in the BLM movement (and any other) - a tiny majority no doubt - whose anger can be funnelled to purposes of others.
Secondly it's just as important to avoid alienating the large rump of society who care about such things but aren't activists.
These are inter-related forces of course; the first will directly cause the problems with the second.
The civil rights marches in the 1960s Northern Ireland were a vehicle that had a key role in spilling us into 30 years of civil disorder and violence. Extremists on both sides of the nationalist & unionist communities used it for their own purposes. (There were protestants in the Civil Rights marches - including the Bloody Sunday one).
Lessons to be learned.Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009. -
Defund the police is a bargaining tool I think rather than a slogan by intent.
It is a sexy sounding thing for a lot of people so you can see why it caught fire. Intriguingly it is not “abolish the police” but I think many see it as “abolish the police”.
It does seem like a heavy handed import to the UK though where it is clear where killing is no where near a normal occurance as it is in America. -
monkey wrote:If you need to explain that your slogan doesn't mean what it says, then it's not much of a slogan. If it doesn't mean defunding the police, then its the worst slogan in history. If it does mean that, then people do know what it means and they don’t much like it. Either way, it's ridiculous. Defunding the police is what has been happening in Britain since 2010 until 2019. Labour fought the last two elections pledging to reverse police cuts. 75% of the vote in the 2019 GE was given to the two main parties who pledged to increase police numbers and funding. It's just wrong-headed to try and import that particular battle into Britain. In the US the cops turn up to protests in tanks, armed with machine guns. In Britain they get a little stick and sometimes a horse is there. If you mean reform, say reform.
See this is exactly the problem. You apparantly don't know what it means either, and you would listen to Starmer if he explained it to you.
Defund the police is categorically NOT "what has been happening in Britain since 2010 until 2019". That is cutting police budgets and expecting them to serve the same functions. Defunding means reallocating budgets so that funds that are going to the police are instead redirected to more appropriate organisations. It is NOT austerity. The same amount of money is being spent, but it is spent outside the police force. In some cases this will be given to existing bodies like NHS trusts, in others new bodies may need to be created.
Defunding ≠ budget cuts -
You see why it is a shit slogan now right?
I mean the dictionary definition of defund isprevent from continuing to receive funds. -
And that's exactly what's being proposed. No one ever said all of the funds though.
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Slogans don't need to fully explain the minutiae of a policy, or "take back control" wouldn't have worked.
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Everyone’s favourite PM, Tony Blair, solved this one years ago. In narrow PR terms at least. “Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime.” It’s got everything you need in there. They understand that you need more than draconian sentencing, that these things have deep roots, that many criminals are firstly victims. But also don’t worry middle England we’re not going to go soft and we’ll still keep you safe. One part without the other doesn’t work. Either side of the comma on its own and you’re automatically putting off the other half of the electorate.
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Partially Defund the Police.Diluted Dante wrote:And that's exactly what's being proposed. No one ever said all of the funds though.
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Diluted Dante wrote:Slogans don't need to fully explain the minutiae of a policy, or "take back control" wouldn't have worked.
They need to be clear enough to not be misinterpreted. -
Even Polly Toynbee can see that that was an absolute disaster. The surmation pretty much leads us to where we are now:
Labour thought they could only win with “tough on crime” policies, and Straw was the Rottweiler to guard their right flank. Let’s hope that next time, a Labour government might dare to be pragmatic and evidence-based on crime and punishment. -
I was careful to limit it to PR, rather than getting into all the effects of various policies over the years. It’s a slogan that won an election, that no one can possibly object to, and gives you a mandate to overhaul and reform criminal justice and the social problems that cause crime. What they did with that is not the point.
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Defund the Police is a shit slogan to be fair. People are misinterpreting it, which is the slogan's fault really. Having a word in it that many people have never heard before is a bad idea. -
The left needs to start using short snappy slogans.
Not like that. -
NOT LIKE THAT is a canny one actually. -
They should have Macarena-style dance routines too.
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Not like that, not like that, in not out, not like that, shake it all about.
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