Cryptocurrency, Blockchain and buy Roujcoin now [ROU] - The Bear and Badger

AndCallMeCharlie

USD & Gold are both sub optimal in a global digital economy.

Diluted Dante

Global for who?

Yossarian

To be clear, right now I’m talking about benefits for consumers rather than business, there’s been talk in here of BC replacing national currencies, I want to know why a consumer would want to switch.

monkey

There's clear benefits to not having to worry about exchange rates. One price, one market, less cost piled onto the product / service. If you work for a company in another country (which will be more frequent as more work moves online) you don't lose out from a shitty conversion rate. Although the dollar is as close as it gets to a global currency, decisions are made on that currency in one country's interests.

I'd be astonished if that happens soon and even more astonisheder if it happens with the current glut of digital currencies. Even then you might get a mess of different ones and have to end up converting them around all the time.

djchump

IDGI - If I want to buy something from China or Japan or whatnot, I go the alibaba.com and pay by Mastercard...?
It seems pretty simple and global already, or am I missing something here?

I mean, then there's the postage and import tax to pay, but bitcoins don't make those go away.

Yossarian

Re: monkey’s example: you still have to deal with the shitty conversion rate in order to be able to spend the money in your own country, no?

g.man

I threw away my old VHS collection years ago. Probably a bad move in retrospect. Sounds like I could have been rich beyond my wildest dreams by now.

oh well

g.man

Escape

You should've traded them in the Blockbuster.

monkey

djchump wrote:

IDGI - If I want to buy something from China or Japan or whatnot, I go the alibaba.com and pay by Mastercard...?
It seems pretty simple and global already, or am I missing something here?

I mean, then there's the postage and import tax to pay, but bitcoins don't make those go away.

You'll pay a conversion rate on mastercard if you're buying stuff in another currency.

monkey

Yossarian wrote:

Re: monkey’s example: you still have to deal with the shitty conversion rate in order to be able to spend the money in your own country, no?

Yeah unless you can spend that digital currency in your own country and it's accepted alongside whatever the native one is.

Yossarian

Okay, so I can see it potentially fulfilling a small niche there for people who work for small companies (larger ones already pay in pounds) overseas and who are paid in Bitcoin, assuming bitcoin becomes much more widely accepted by businesses, but it’s hardly about to edge out any national currencies based on that is it?

djchump

monkey wrote:

IDGI - If I want to buy something from China or Japan or whatnot, I go the alibaba.com and pay by Mastercard...? It seems pretty simple and global already, or am I missing something here? I mean, then there's the postage and import tax to pay, but bitcoins don't make those go away.

You'll pay a conversion rate on mastercard if you're buying stuff in another currency.

Of course, but unless the entire world all uses the same currency (be it euros or dollars or bitcoin), you'll always have to pay a conversion rate, surely?

I mean, we never took up the euro, and we're brexiting, so the likelihood of a world-wide currency seems a tad far-fetched.

Yossarian

FWIW, ordering stuff from other countries will always be more expensive and will always only be done as a last resort with or without conversion fees. Removing them will have little effect on any individual’s life.

[Deleted User]

monkey wrote:

djchump wrote:

IDGI - If I want to buy something from China or Japan or whatnot, I go the alibaba.com and pay by Mastercard...?
It seems pretty simple and global already, or am I missing something here?

I mean, then there's the postage and import tax to pay, but bitcoins don't make those go away.

You'll pay a conversion rate on mastercard if you're buying stuff in another currency.

Not if you use revolut. Any number of fintech innovators get round that issue by using a centralised ledger. Why use a decentralised one? There are legitimate reasons but they are quite niche.

1) you want to remain anonymous. Well, in that case, you are giving someone your name and address so what is the point? But if you want to support WikiLeaks when PayPal has frozen it's account on the mere say so of the US Govt (IE without a court order), then hey presto, public blockchain currencies are handy again. Provided they can't trace your bitcoin to an exchange which practices KYC...

2) you want to eliminate a middle man when transacting P2P. It's all good using revolut to buy stuff, but if you wanna send money to your mother in Turkmenistan, it's probably easier to use bitcoin or to use a firm that will convert your cash to bitcoin to cash to give your mum in 24 hours compared to the 7 days and 10-15% chunk all the existing middle men will take.

3) to get around money laundering regulations. (Or to launder money, but that requires a complex cryptocurrency ecosystem)

[Deleted User]

And then there are the risks:

1) irreversibility of transactions compared to, say, MasterCard
2) lack of counterparty it would be fruitful to sue.
3) interaction with unregulated, hackable exchanges likely infiltrated with fraudsters.

monkey

djchump wrote:

IDGI - If I want to buy something from China or Japan or whatnot, I go the alibaba.com and pay by Mastercard...? It seems pretty simple and global already, or am I missing something here? I mean, then there's the postage and import tax to pay, but bitcoins don't make those go away.

You'll pay a conversion rate on mastercard if you're buying stuff in another currency.

Of course, but unless the entire world all uses the same currency (be it euros or dollars or bitcoin), you'll always have to pay a conversion rate, surely? I mean, we never took up the euro, and we're brexiting, so the likelihood of a world-wide currency seems a tad far-fetched.

That's the point. If you could use bitcoin for everything, you wouldn't pay a conversion rate. As for it being far-fetched, I agree completely. It would be a very very bad idea. 30 / 40 years from now, with bitcoin 8.0 or something, who knows?

Yossarian

I know, it won’t happen.

The benefits to the individual don’t outweigh the psychological cost to individuals of switching. If we’re given a choice between dealing with something as important as money using a system we are familiar and comfortable with or one that we are unfamiliar with, we will use the familiar system 99% of the time.

WorKid

I'd need to be getting paid in bitcoin. At which point it's the defacto currency of the UK. Not a realistic proposition is it?

Otherwise I'm converting GBP to BC to give to someone for them to convert back to something useable for them. I can do that now.

monkey

Yossarian wrote:

I know, it won’t happen. The benefits to the individual don’t outweigh the psychological cost to individuals of switching. If we’re given a choice between dealing with something as important as money using a system we are familiar and comfortable with or one that we are unfamiliar with, we will use the familiar system 99% of the time.

You may think you know. But you don't and nor does anyone else. I was talking 30 to 40 years in the future. So that's like predicting from the 1980s what the world would look like now. You'd be miles off.

Bitcoin et al is mostly garbage with some niche use cases. IF some future notional digital currency can correct the huge disadvatanges, then I don't see why it can't sit alongside national currencies and then eventually replace them. The more connected countries economies get, it might be easier than using a national currency. It doesn't need to be perfect. The Euro isn't perfect but people still switched to it and use it.

monkey

WorKid wrote:

I'd need to be getting paid in bitcoin. At which point it's the defacto currency of the UK. Not a realistic proposition is it? Otherwise I'm converting GBP to BC to give to someone for them to convert back to something useable for them. I can do that now.

Japanese company to start paying employees in bitcoin

Yossarian

I think it involves a change in mindset which can only be imposed, not chosen. We’d still be on imperial measures if we weren’t pushed into metric because once people have become comfortable with one system, converting to another takes too much mental effort when we’re trying to use our brainpower for something else. When I’m paying for something in a shop, I’m too busy thinking about whether I can afford it full stop to want to deal with conversions.

AndCallMeCharlie

Bang on post monkey

monkey

Yossarian wrote:

I think it involves a change in mindset which can only be imposed, not chosen. We’d still be on imperial measures if we weren’t pushed into metric because once people have become comfortable with one system, converting to another takes too much mental effort when we’re trying to use our brainpower for something else. When I’m paying for something in a shop, I’m too busy thinking about whether I can afford it full stop to want to deal with conversions.

Yeah maybe. There’s circumstances where it might be imposed. Other developing countries might take it up more readily eg Bric countries. The govt then wants us to switch to a digital currency as its stifling competitiveness by being different.

I appreciate this is a bit like talking about how flying cars are going to be implemented though. All well and good but the necessary tech doesn’t actually exist yet.

djchump

I think it's more likely that the euro, dollar, renminbi or rupee becomes the defacto world currency - or we'll hit post scarcity and there's no need for money at all - than a cryptocurrency will take the lead.

Djornson

djchump wrote:

I think it's more likely that the euro, dollar, renminbi or rupee becomes the defacto world currency - or we'll hit post scarcity and there's no need for money at all - than a cryptocurrency will take the lead.

£ mate

(joking)

Dinostar77

Dinostar77 wrote:

https://medium.com/@preethikasireddy/fundamental-challenges-with-public-blockchains-253c800e9428

Astonishingly good read. This girl really knows her stuff. Probably the best bit of info on cryptocurrency I've ever read. Eye-opening.

Issues with blockchain, well worth a read

Dinostar77

Dinostar77 wrote:

This is useful as well

Potential uses of blockchain that are in development

Dinostar77

https://hackernoon.com/bitcoin-ethereum-blockchain-tokens-icos-why-should-anyone-care-890b868cec06?source=user_profile

13

I've linked another excellent article. Have a read and it will answer alot of questions.

Escape

Other than profiteering, the only use I can see for Bitto's illegal purchases. For everything else, there's PayPal.

Dinostar77

Current bitcoin Futures contracts expire today. Once traders have settled their accounts the next contract starts. People expecting bitcoin to drop below £7000 today because of this and fact traders have been shorting bitcoin. I'm skeptical, but let's see how today plays out.

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