Destiny 2 - Developed by Bungie - The Bear and Badger

Jacuzzi_Jackson

You guys crack me up.

tigersgogrrr

Jacuzzi_Jackson wrote:

You guys crack me up.

This is why we forum.

[Deleted User]

tigerswiftly wrote:

@daviedigi -I'm only teasing you, Davie. As I said, I've never even seen Killzone running. I'd have thought my constantly furious Halo praise would have been quite obviously tongue in cheek given all the the BEST CAPS but maybe not. No offense intended.

Mod can keep his snide little remarks to himself, however.

EDIT: I'm not going to argue about that shit though. So dull.

I weren't arguing I were having a discussion about the pros and cons of ads and suchlike.

Its the use of CAPS that made ne think that maybe the discussion couldn't be agreed upon even to disagree as well as the 'halo is the skillfull game' and battlefield players are crap parts.

Seems like people here love halo too much to even consider how it could be betterd by a new franchise/i.p and just want more of the same.

I also have to say that my view is that mod has been correct in my opinion of what he's posted in this thread.

As for never even seeing killzone running, its one of the most techniclly stunning looking games this gen so even if there's stuff you don't like about it youv nmissed out on one of the most beutifull games to look at from a graphics standpoint.

My 2 pence worth.

Mod74

Funkstain wrote:

if you're interested in a conversation about it. If not, then again I suppose you could just ignore it.

I am interested, although I've pretty much said all I can say on it, so engaged with that conversation.

I also said that claiming one is more skilful than another comes from a place of egotism rather than fact. Sorry if that's bordering on offensive but it's the best way to describe how I feel about it.

[Deleted User]

@funk: well put and I'd enjoy reading more of your views on fps and ads.
Especially the types that use ads please.

Nexx

You want Funk's views? Seriously?...

tigersgogrrr

One of the biggest issues isn't so much ADS in and of itself, but that the system goes hand in hand with ultra-fast kill times. Ultra-fast kill times make it easier for people with bad and inconsistent aim to kill more people.

I want games to have a firefight, goddammit.

EDIT: Are there any games with ADS that don't have really fast kill times?

Yossarian

Bungie net's been updated with a few details, most of which aren't new, but there is some extra info, for instance, the Fallen have three classes (Dreg, Vandal, Captain), so should be mirroring the squad dynamics of the Covenant.

Incidentally, I'm generally not planning to spoiler info that comes straight from Bungie in the buildup to this game as they tend to be quite smart about what they do and don't release. Would people prefer if I spoilered the lot?

Knight

Funkstain wrote:

Thing is Mod I don't think it's personal with Knight. I think he's expressing his view that some FPS games / types require more "skill" (which personally I think probably needs more definition to be helpful) than other types, and backing that up with his justification. You are just saying "bugger off mate you're on an ego trip", which isn't constructive really. If you don't want to engage with Knight's views, however ridiculous you may find them, then I suppose you could always choose to ignore them. I may be on my own ego trip here, but I think the views I've expressed about ADS, specifically my concern about the type of FPS games that seem to feature ADS the most, are quite valid, and despite some initial definition / explanation issues, could serve as a starting point, if you're interested in a conversation about it. If not, then again I suppose you could just ignore it.

Shutup Funk, this is personal. You're a noob and Mod's a n00b and I really just wanna tell everyone else how bad they are at FPS and how I'm the bestest and if anyone's good at another FPS to the one I'm bestest at then that FPS is just for scrubs anyway so they're still a worthless n0ob.

Mod74

tigerswiftly wrote:

One of the biggest issues isn't so much ADS in and of itself, but that the system goes hand in hand with ultra-fast kill times. Ultra-fast kill times make it easier for people with bad and inconsistent aim to kill more people. I want games to have a firefight, goddammit. EDIT: Are there any games with ADS that don't have really fast kill times?

See, you say ultrafast, I say normal. Halo's is glacial to me.

Leaving aside shotguns from a foot away and head shots from a sniper -I don't think many people would argue they shouldn't be 1 or 2 shot kills- then I think a medium range encounter with a medium range weapon should produce a from full health kill if every shot lands (regardless of body or head) without having to reload and without the assistance of explosives.

Any game that lets you do that is normal to me, anything that takes longer is too long imo.

GooberTheHat

More than 2 shots to the head from any weapon without a kill is too much.

Yossarian

Mod, your point there does kind of help Knight's case that Halo takes more skill than most ADS games. Halo will easily let you kill someone from medium range with pretty much any weapon as long as you can land a headshot.

tigersgogrrr

Mod74 wrote:

See, you say ultrafast, I say normal. Halo's is glacial to me.

Normal for a military FPS, fair enough. But we've got a market saturated with those already and I'd hope Destiny wouldn't go down that route. I'd like slightly faster kill times than we had in Halo 3, but I do like it that someone can get the drop on you and, if you're good enough, you can sometimes kill them first.

tigersgogrrr

Again I ask: Are there any games with ADS that don't have lightning fast kill times?

Mod74

Man, I used to love BFBC2's shotgun slugs. You could aim at a dot in the distance (something like 300m away) and adjusted for drop one-shot a sniper.

One shot, with a shotgun, from 300m away, without a scope.

That was a bit OP to be fair.

Mod74

Yossarian wrote:

Mod, your point there does kind of help Knight's case that Halo takes more skill than most ADS games. Halo will easily let you kill someone from medium range with pretty much any weapon as long as you can land a headshot.

I don't see what ADS has to do with kill times.

I_R

Bad Company 2 was slower than COD and BF3, but it's still pretty quick compared to Halo.

The lack of armour on some of the Destiny character models makes me think kills will be very quick.

Yossarian

Mod74 wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Mod, your point there does kind of help Knight's case that Halo takes more skill than most ADS games. Halo will easily let you kill someone from medium range with pretty much any weapon as long as you can land a headshot.

I don't see what ADS has to do with kill times.

Most ADS games have much quicker kill times than Halo's 'glacial' ones.

nick_md

tigerswiftly wrote:

Again I ask: Are there any games with ADS that don't have lightning fast kill times?

Gears introduced ADS in 3 and has slow-ish kill times, with rifles anyway.

This all seems like it's getting out of hand a little anyway, interesting discussion though it is. Personally I love ADS when shooting ze Germans in WWII or other 'realistic' stuff. Don't miss it at all in halo. It's not a deal breaker for me either way.

As for Destiny, I certainly think Activision will be a little nervous about it, seems silly not to be - big name devs have failed before when launching new IPs after hugely successful ones, not that I think that'll happen here. I just hope it retains the humour and pyrotechnics of Halo and doesn't do a POP style emofication to try to appeal to more 'mature' audiences.

Mod74

Most games have quicker kill times than Halo's

The only FPS non-ads games I can think of right now are Counter Strike and Team Fortress 2. both of them have much lower kill times. Because you don't have to grind away at a shield before being able to damage the player.

Admittedly it's hard to compare TF2 due to the huge variety in health bars and weapons.

Yossarian

More tidbits offered up for rampant speculation:

Someone what wrote into the Bungie mail sack wrote:

I saw on your careers page there is an opening for "Raid Designer" and the very last requirement is as follows: Max level character with significant end game Player versus Environment experience in a popular online game. Could you please shed a little more light on this position?

The answer didn't shed much light on the position, but this does suggest that the ability to level up will be a part of the game. Possibly.

Mod74

Does it?

I read it just as they want a top WoW or similar player to design some MMO raids.

Yossarian

Could be that as well, but the use of the phrase 'max level' could suggest something else. I dunno, I hope you're right, Mod. I always liked the level playing field in Halo.

Mod74

I think if they're going for an MMO then player levelling will be unavoidable. How do you keep people hooked?

I dunno, there's been plenty of people had a crack or having a crack at a shooter MMO and they all to me seem a bit pony but if anyone stands a chance it's Bungie. I guess.

stonechalice

Back to the skill thing. Mod can you not see that it takes more skill to take someone out if the kill times are longer? It takes more concentration to track the target and finish the job, especially if the target is jumping about and strafing. It makes for much more rewarding, challenging and ultimately satisfying gameplay. Quick killing can be fun, but it descends in to twitch gaming, and ends up a bit dull. I still wonder why hardcore mode gets added to CoD games year after year. I can barely tell the difference anymore. I'm not sure ADS comes in to it that much to be honest...

Mod74

stonechalice wrote:

Back to the skill thing. Mod can you not see that it takes more skill to take someone out if the kill times are longer? It takes more concentration to track the target and finish the job, especially if the target is jumping about and strafing.

There's two sides to that story though. You could argue you need to be a skilful aimer to track a target. At the same time you need to be able to bunny hop and strafe to avoid being hit. Which is nothing to do with aiming.

You could be absolutely shit at aiming but still be good at Halo (ie K/D) by being ace at avoidance.

Yossarian

Mod74 wrote:

You could be absolutely shit at aiming but still be good at Halo (ie K/D) by being ace at avoidance.

Not really. No-one's good enough at avoidance to be completely impervious to getting killed, and if you aren't doing well at aiming, you aren't going to make up the shortfall.

Besides, Halo has always been much more of a team game than something like CoD. You can still be useful to your team (helping control power weapons, helping lock down enemy vehicles) whilst going negative.

stonechalice

Honestly? I don't see that at all. Combining all those things together takes skill, you couldn't get away with not hitting your target and still be good at Halo. Sorry.

Edit. @Mod.

Tempy

Skill = blue plate special in Tribes 2. Holla at my man @bollockoff

GooberTheHat

But the fact that it is so much easier to be killed makes it just as difficult to build up a decent k/d ratio in cod/bf as halo or whatever. It is a different skill set, granted, but it requires no more or less level of skill.

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