Destiny 2 - Developed by Bungie - The Bear and Badger

Knight

Mod74 wrote:

Sorry mate, but you aren't going to convince me one FPS is more skilful than another. Different skills definitely, but not more. That's just rampant egotism.

Hang on, I'm not talking about comparing one FPS with another, I'm talking about comparing one FPS mechanic with another. Now are you saying I couldn't convince you that ANY FPS was more skillful than ANY other FPS? Because that would be nonsense. Counter Strike on a PC is waaaaay harder than Halo 3/Reach/4, no one who's played both to a decent level would say any different. As for egotism... what has anyone's ego got to do with this? You're acting odd at the moment.

Yossarian

Counter Strike on PC was for wusses who couldn't handle Halo. Probably, I've never played it.

stonechalice

Yossarian wrote:

I'm not sure whether movement speed is slowed down in Halo when you're zoomed in, or whether it just seems slower.

Either way, using sights on Halo is more of a way to extend a gun's effective range than anything else. I don't zoom if someone's close to me.

Nor me, zoom for range. Makes perfect sense. It's all about the realism thing i suppose.

As for people that want the jump button removed, wtf? It's a game, and i want to be able to jump about and strafe, why would you want to just plod around corridors with that 'who sees who first wins' style gameplay and lose all that creativeness and those lol moments? I like both CoD and Halo, CoD for fast paced twitch gameplay for half an hour, Halo for balls out lols.

Yossarian

I wasn't saying that I think it should be removed, just that I could see a perfectly decent FPS existing without the jump button, which would also be less ridiculous in the way people move around the map.

stonechalice

I find all the silliness and malarkey the fun stuff in shooters. Imagine not being able to jump up and skyjack a Banshee in Halo? Or outwit someone on your ass by pulling off a jumping shortcut evade style ninja 360? Or plunging down, sticky in hand , ready to plant on a Scorpion?

I like the jump button, although I admit it does annoy me when you get some bunny hopping dick head with a shotgun come round the corner in CoD. It just doesn't fit with the theme of the game. It's perfectly fine in Halo though...

Yossarian

Now you come to mention it, the mere addition of vehicles (especially ones with area of effect weapons) does make jumping more necessary. If it's just on foot, then I can live without it.

[Deleted User]

the jumping around bunny hopping in halo and cod are ridiculous.

however i see your point about sky-jacking as i love it on battlefield.
and sky diving/parachuting from air vehicle to air vehicle feels so good.

maybe just tone it down lots?

Diluted Dante

Yeah, you should only use zoom to shoot someone furthwr away. If you have to zoom in to shoot someone close to you then that's a bit weird.

tigersgogrrr

daviedigi wrote:

the jumping around bunny hopping in halo and cod are ridiculous

It's ridiculous in COD. It's awesome in Halo, just as it was awesome in Quake 3 and awesome in Unreal Tournament.

Moto70

tigerswiftly wrote:

daviedigi wrote:

the jumping around bunny hopping in halo and cod are ridiculous

It's ridiculous in COD. It's awesome in Halo, just as it was awesome in Quake 3 and awesome in Unreal Tournament.

Yes, this...

Actually, Unreal Tournament, now there's a game I'd like to see a nextgen version of.

Bollockoff

tigerswiftly wrote:

ADS generally slows the game down.

It really doesn't though. If people played an entire match with their eyes glued to the scope it would, but most people use sights sparingly for a few seconds then scope out to move. I don't get how this slower game idea stems from the fact you move slower when scoped since tunnel vision is the biggest disadvantage and you scope for a few seconds, if that.

Often I find a standard crosshair is much better for shooting than sights anyway. Hipfiring crosshairs like you find in older PC games and Halo are much better for shooting moving targets I find, even at a distance. That's why I loved the battle rifle during the brief time I had on Halo 3's multiplayer and was a beast with the Magnum in Half Life 2 DM.

Bollockoff

And people should be thankful they didn't have to contend with people dolphin diving constantly in BF2. Didn't effect your accuracy either.

Yossarian

I think that the point about it slowing down the game is more down to the fact that ADS can discourage movement in a way that hip firing doesn't.

Funkstain

No this is my fault for using bad definitions / explanations. What I mean by slowing the game down is simply the act of pressing a button to access ADS, and the lack of movement speed / options whilst in that state (strafe, run, escape etc)

Kill times are clearly much MUCH faster in COD / most ADS games, I think mainly because of this mechanic. If the kill time in COD was like Halo, then by the time you've clicked into ADS and started shooting the chap'll take a few hits and then run away - you won't be able to follow quickly, cos you'll have to snap out of ADS and start running.

I prefer the type of game which allows for movement with accurate shooting (with skill), with longer kill times to introduce a different style of hunting / killing. That's all I mean! Definitely not trying to say one game's "better" than another.

Funkstain

Or what Yoss said.

Bollockoff

I don't believe ADS discourages movement. The main villain of that in an FPS is bad map design creating unflankable positions and sparse cover.

Yossarian

Well, clearly if you can't really move while shooting and it's a more accurate way to shoot it must discourage movement during times when you want to be at your most accurate, surely?

And surely if I've got myself a strong position and ads will allow me to outshoot someone who walks into my field of view as they'll be firing from the hip, it makes sense for me to stay in one place ready for someone to walk in and get killed?

Paul the sparky

Zooming in Halo is exactly the same. But you can add in the invisibility perk that slows it down even more. Can't believe I've been draw into this argument but there you go.

Bollockoff

Yossarian wrote:

Well, clearly if you can't really move while shooting and it's a more accurate way to shoot it must discourage movement during times when you want to be at your most accurate, surely? And surely if I've got myself a strong position and ads will allow me to outshoot someone who walks into my field of view as they'll be firing from the hip, it makes sense for me to stay in one place ready for someone to walk in and get killed?

Surely, of course. That's camping. But how do you counter a camper? By flanking him of course. If you take a position where you can easily get the drop on someone from one direction it's logical (if the mapmaker is worth salt) that the enemy is going to be trying to move around you from another direction so in that sense you encourage movement. It's not as drastic in Halo i'm sure but it's still odds in your favour if you come up on someones blind side.

Essentially, staying in one place for too long is a bad idea 90% of the time in an FPS. Nout much to do with your aiming system.

Yossarian

The zooming mechanic in Halo is only useful on certain maps, in certain situations and is only available on certain weapons. Zooming does not account for the majority of kills that are made.

As for invis., well, the less said about that the better.

Edit: @Paul.

Yossarian

@Bollock, the point is that the aiming system encourages camping.

GooberTheHat

But camping encourages movement.

Bollockoff

Exactly. It's fun to note that the worst(best) campers in CoD are those who use shotguns. Which are totally banned in most tournaments.

Billy

The main thing i'm taking away from all this is HALO3STOCK

Diluted Dante

Invis was great in H3. Utterly broken as an AA.

Zooming doesn't happen that much in Halo. Even with the BR a lot of the kills are not scoped.

Mod74

Funkstain wrote:

Kill times are clearly much MUCH faster in COD / most ADS games, I think mainly because of this mechanic.

Not really, look at Counter Strike.

The reason kill times are longer in Halo is because of the shield mechanic -if you can call it a mechanic, really it's just an extra long health bar- and nothing to do with aim type. As Yoss said, take the shields away and the kill times drop dramatically.

tigersgogrrr

Billy_Hologram wrote:

The main thing i'm taking away from all this is HALO3STOCK

ALL IN.

Mod74

Knight wrote:

Sorry mate, but you aren't going to convince me one FPS is more skilful than another. Different skills definitely, but not more. That's just rampant egotism.

Hang on, I'm not talking about comparing one FPS with another, I'm talking about comparing one FPS mechanic with another. Now are you saying I couldn't convince you that ANY FPS was more skillful than ANY other FPS? Because that would be nonsense. Counter Strike on a PC is waaaaay harder than Halo 3/Reach/4, no one who's played both to a decent level would say any different. As for egotism... what has anyone's ego got to do with this? You're acting odd at the moment.

Just because someone is good at Halo, or Counter Strike, or COD, or Battlefield, or take your pick doesn't mean they're any good at any other game. Completely different skill sets. You can't say one is more skilful than another. You might as well say Tennis is more skilful than Volleyball.

You like saying Halo is a skilful game because you're good at it. That to me is just ego talking and what it says is "I'm good at a hard game so I'm better than people who are good at a lesser one". The idea of more or lesser skill exists only in your head.

If the idea of more and less skilful games held any water then someone who was good at the "most" skilful game would be able to boss a "less" skilful one. We both know that's nowhere near the case.

tigersgogrrr

Knight hasn't said anything about Halo being a high skill game.

Ah, Jesus.

Yossarian

Mod74 wrote:

the shield mechanic -if you can call it a mechanic, really it's just an extra long health bar.

Pfft.

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