The Next Next Gen Thread o/\o - The Bear and Badger

GurtTractor

Paul the sparky wrote:

3. What makes you think they'll hit the ground running this gen when they didn't in the last one? That's going to be tricky, especially if they're trying to make use of the extra grunt in never before seen ways. I've not seen anything of their games mind.

AFAIK both new consoles will use an x86 type architecture again, so very similar to PC. I'm sure there are some new features and capabilities to learn, but really it should be quite simple to get up and running. PS4 and Xbox One use AMD cores that are basically like their old desktop CPUs, and the new stuff is Ryzen based, compatibility and porting over engines and such should be a doddle.

Paul the sparky

If they're using AMD stuff will we see the consoles using freesync?

GurtTractor

If I was Sony at this point I would try and poke one of the first party devs to come out with some demo that really showcases what can be done. "A truly next-generation experience, made possible with the Playstation 5".

GurtTractor

Paul the sparky wrote:

If they're using AMD stuff will we see the consoles using freesync?

I think the current Xbox is supposed to have some Freesync capability, not sure how well it works currently. Freesync 2 is what everything will have soon, I forget the differences exactly but it's better anyway. It should be baked into the new HDMI standard IIRC, so everything will have it. If you are looking at getting a new TV soon I would research it and be sure to get one that has support.

To be clear Freesync is AMD's marketing term for an adaptive sync technology, it's something that can in theory be implemented into every monitor's hardware controller quite cheaply, to adjust the Hz on the fly to match the output of the console/GPU. It can effectively get rid of framerate judder, tearing, and improves input latency due to no vsync being needed.

Paul the sparky

Yeah, I've been trying to wrap my head around monitors to see if they're viable for next gen as I don't watch TV in the games room at all. Gsync was the one that tickled my fancy but I don't know/can't remember why. I'm sure freesync 2 will be fine.

Bob

What’s with your obsession with who upgraded to x or pro? Early adopters that’s who and early adopters are more than likely To upgrade again regardless of whether they feel
They have had vfm from their last purchase

GurtTractor

This is from a couple of years ago but worth watching to get an idea of what it offers. It can be hit and miss is seems, but it should be pretty well sorted come the next gen. Adaptive sync is one of those things that feels like it should have been a tech in displays since the start, solves so many issues and makes a lot of sense for games.

Ignore Gsync stuff, that's Nvidia's version, it was proprietary to Nvidia GPUs though not any more in some cases, it's a little complicated. Just go for something with Freesync 2 certification, another thing to look for is the VRR (variable refresh rate) range of a display, some displays will support adaptive syncing down quite low, others it can be 45-50 which is not so great. If content falls below the minimum of the range you get stutters again.

Paul the sparky

@bob Obsession?

I'm just trying to understand the mentality of someone who will gladly buy a Pro or X knowing that they're going to be able to play exactly the same games but a bit shinier, yet baulk at the idea of doing it again with the new Xbox. It doesn't make much sense to me.

Paul the sparky

Cheers Gurt, watching now. I didn't even know that was available on the X.

I used that part picker site for the monitor specs and you can get really low refresh rates for decent prices.

Kernowgaz

Paul the sparky wrote:

Cheers Gurt, watching now. I didn't even know that was available on the X.

I used that part picker site for the monitor specs and you can get really low refresh rates for decent prices.

Do they have HDR ? For me now that’s more important than 4K because it looks absolutely stunning.

b0r1s

Paul the sparky wrote:

@bob Obsession?

I'm just trying to understand the mentality of someone who will gladly buy a Pro or X knowing that they're going to be able to play exactly the same games but a bit shinier, yet baulk at the idea of doing it again with the new Xbox. It doesn't make much sense to me.

I wouldn’t say you asking a couple of people an obsession. Not that I have to explain but for clarity I will. I upgraded to the Pro from a relatively early base unit. I sold my old unit so all in only cost just over £140 I think. For that I got a Pro (not just shiny but things like frame rate selection on some games giving better gameplay) and a fresh new pad and an upgraded HD from 500gb to 1tb.

The fundamental difference is I knew I was buying an upgrade and thought the cost to benefit ratio was more than worth it.

With a new gen I do want a noticeable shift in what the machine can do. I think it’s been clearly laid out that the difference this time, especially in CPU and storage will make big differences.

I’m also not saying MS strategy will fail, it’s an interesting, if I personally think flawed approach. And I’ll eventually get a Series X. But I’ll probably get a PS5 now.

Paul the sparky

Kernowgaz wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

Cheers Gurt, watching now. I didn't even know that was available on the X.

I used that part picker site for the monitor specs and you can get really low refresh rates for decent prices.

Do they have HDR ? For me now that’s more important than 4K because it looks absolutely stunning.

Actually, that isn't one of the filters on the site, but some of them do have HDR too. I'll have to bear that in mind.

GurtTractor

Yeah HDR is a whole other complicated thing to research, the implementation and quality is pretty variable from what I've seen.

Diluted Dante

Paul the sparky wrote:

I'm not worried about the OG Bone and I'm still using mine. It'll be an after thought, the games will technically work, got to tick that box, sure, but they'll be nerfed to shit as the main focus will be on the next generation console. The old hardware will be where the compromises are made, not at the sharp end.

I mean, after seeing how Destiny was compromised to run across 2 gens, with less of a gap in CPU power than this gen, I can't imagine how this would be true.

Paul the sparky

b0r1s wrote:

The fundamental difference is I knew I was buying an upgrade and thought the cost to benefit ratio was more than worth it.

It's the same thing to me. You're doing the same calculation. Do you sell your X to part fund the new, improved X (the name thing is getting on my tits now. Should have stuck with Scarlett) and is the jump worth it?

But people seem to be going no fucking way when they find out that the Series X won't have it's own set of exclusives, as if they've not already done it before. It's strange to me.

Bob

Paul the sparky wrote:

@bob Obsession?

I'm just trying to understand the mentality of someone who will gladly buy a Pro or X knowing that they're going to be able to play exactly the same games but a bit shinier, yet baulk at the idea of doing it again with the new Xbox. It doesn't make much sense to me.

I’d argue that the people
Who bought a pro are exactly the same kind of people that will buy PS5 day one.

I’d also predict Sony will introduce a redesigned PS4 super slim at like £199 which will appeal to a whole new demographic and shift many more units.

b0r1s

@Paul - but I'm not saying "no fucking way" I'm saying I'll wait as there's no rush, as the general feeling is that initially the PS5 will potentially use more of the tech. That was my opinion when I read the announcement and it appears to be the opinion of people who know this stuff more than me (DF being a good example).

In addition, I only bought my X (never had the base One) last February, so I still have lots of MS games to play and my unit is nice and new.

At the end of the day, if come launch day there are no compelling games for either console I'll just carry on as anyway.

Paul the sparky

Diluted Dante wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

I'm not worried about the OG Bone and I'm still using mine. It'll be an after thought, the games will technically work, got to tick that box, sure, but they'll be nerfed to shit as the main focus will be on the next generation console. The old hardware will be where the compromises are made, not at the sharp end.

I mean, after seeing how Destiny was compromised to run across 2 gens, with less of a gap in CPU power than this gen, I can't imagine how this would be true.

I don't know what you're on about with the Destiny thing, can you explain it? How was it compromised and why?

Bob

Least surprising news since Sony aren’t at e3

https://www.gamesradar.com/ps5-reported-to-have-next-gen-exclusives-after-microsoft-announces-cross-gen-plans-for-xbox-series-x

Cant help but think this is a repeat of last gen where m$ confuse and mix their message and Sony capitalize on that.

acemuzzy

Paul the sparky wrote:

baulk at the idea

Paul the sparky wrote:

people seem to be going no fucking way

Given your opening question a page ago, I think you're referring to me. But I really don't see how you get ^ from

acemuzzy wrote:

I'm much more likely to buy a new console if it gets me access to games I couldn't otherwise play... Not saying I won't, or others won't, but it's a less compelling sales pitch for sure.

These aren't absolutes. I'm not saying they are. I have a Bone X and no Switch. But are you trying to say getting access to new games would make you less likely to buy a new console, out just equally so??

Paul the sparky

Of course I'm not, what on Earth are you on about?

So you don't have a Pro?

If you look at what I've said, people are definitely taking this news and writing off the idea of upgrading their bone within the first two years because it doesn't have any exclusive games. Some of these people have already upgraded their consoles this generation, to a Pro or X, despite the fact that they don't have any exclusive games. I'm asking who has done this, and why in their minds this is a different situation, because in my mind it's not. Why shouldn't I ask that?

Myself, Dante and Wookie didn't upgrade, but the fact that the OG consoles are getting long in the tooth is making it more likely for me to upgrade now than it was when the X and Pro came out. But maybe people are right, and the focus of these games won't be the Series X, and keeping my old bone will be a viable option. I doubt that very much, but we've not seen any games running yet and don't have the comparisons to hand, so it's all conjecture at the minute. I'm happy to wait and see before deciding either way. Madness I'm sure.

Bob

Cos a mid life upgrade is different to a entirely new console.

What’s muddying the water is that ms are blurring the boundaries of what is a new console

Paul the sparky

Different in that you will never see exclusive games on it, but with this Series X you will.

People are happy to buy one, not the other. Still don't get it.

Bob

Because buying a pro is different.

It’s clear that it’s not a new console.

Similar to when 360 launched with two models but just not at launch

If you want to buy a PS4 now you have a choice and that’s good.

Ps5 is a new console it’s not difficult

RedDave2

I don't think anyone has said they won't get one, just that the inclination to get one at day one has been lessened by the fact that if you have a bone or x, you already have access to new games. Obviously if you really want those games at their best, you'll get a series x.

The difference to the one x and ps Pro, is that this time Sony will have a new high spec system out as well but it will have the lure of new games designed to take as much advantage possible of the new tech. That oddly becomes one of the ps5s USP.

Syph79

Paul the sparky wrote:

Different in that you will never see exclusive games on it, but with this Series X you will.

People are happy to buy one, not the other. Still don't get it.

The Pro was sold as a mid generation upgrade that would help people get more from the 4K TV’s, and have the ‘best’ PS4. I upgraded without having a fancy TV because the cost (after selling my launch PS4) wasn’t too high, and I figured having a newer unit was safer. I had launch PS360’s that both died.

Sony said that 1 in 5 PS4’s sold after launch were a Pro. I don’t know whether that’s changed, but as it’s a mid-generation upgrade it’s probably safe to say around 1-2 in 10 PS4’s out there are the Pro. I don’t think the Pro or the X have been successful in their own, but they have jolted sales for their respective launch consoles.

I wouldn’t upgrade my Pro to a 5 if I can still play the same games as I can today, but I am getting ready for a generation leap (if there is a demonstrable one). I suspect others are the same, if they’ve not long upgraded to a Pro or an X.

Moot_Geeza

I would've thought Bone X owners would be far less likely to sit up and take notice of the Series X any time soon. Buying a SX at launch if you own an X seems almost head wobble territory to me now, but each to their own of course. The fact that people were willing to upgrade once before isn't necessarily relevant, if anything it adds justification to their purchase; thanks to this business model they're all set for the next couple of years. Plus, it depends on the individual whether having upgraded once would make them more or less likely to upgrade again. For me, I reckon I'd be less likely.

I didn't like the whole mid-gen minor upgrade thing but I did appreciate the way both companies handled the stat bump with the Pro/X (New 3DS is the poster child for oh fuck off due to hosting a Ninja Turtle's handful of exclusives worth mentioning). Personally speaking, if I had an X I'd be pleasantly surprised (and happy) with the way MS are doing it. If I had a Pro I expect I'd be disgruntled with Sony's stance, no doubt tempered by the fact that I would've pretty much known what I was getting myself in for when I parted with the cash.

RedDave2

Maybe the right way was to have it that the x would be able to run series x games but not the Og bone and bone s? That way you look after those who invested in the x but you aren't held back by catering to the (relatively) small bone base

Paul the sparky

You must be right Moot, I was thinking that the reason for upgrading this gen was to play the best possible version of the same games. So I thought that thinking would lead to X owners being more likely to keep up with the Joneses. And Pro owners seeing the logic behind it. Maybe not.

poprock

People upgrade to new mobile phones without any need to. They just want the new hot shiny phone. People upgrade their televisions without any need to – they’re still watching the same shows, just sometimes with better shinies. People upgrade their computers without needing to, even gamers. They could have played the same games with lower graphics settings on their old PCs. Etc etc.

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