Swinson really does get on my tits.

She is now claiming it is unfair to exclude her from TV debates because she is the only woman that could be PM.

If she wants to make a case for Lib Dem representation then make it but seriously fuck off with that "I'm the only woman" shit.

"Its important girls watching at home see that women can be leaders as well".
Her head must have been up her arse for the past 2 years and not just the past 2 months.

Did they commission a poll that left them second with a rigged question?

I don’t understand the bile directed at the Lib Dems.

Andy wrote:

I don’t understand the bile directed at the Lib Dems.

Austerity loving, cynical opportunists. Menzies Campbell was the last of them with any integrity.

LivDiv wrote:

She is now claiming it is unfair to exclude her from TV debates because she is the only woman that could be PM.

Where was that?

Andy wrote:

I don’t understand the bile directed at the Lib Dems.

For me I think a lot of it is just holding them accountable for past mistakes, although people do it with all political parties it felt shitty with the Lib Dems because them going headstrong into a coalition and selling out their own policies felt like a betrayal.

Since then they've struggled to refind their feet "revoke article 50" sounds good, but you can't help but feel it became a policy mainly because the party was seen as neither radical or exciting and they needed some big policy to make them seem dynamic, they have an image problem that isn't helped by them constantly trying to reimagine themselves as the party of the centre ground whilst most of their policy choices sit a little to far to the right for most peoples comfort, it's gained them some support from defecting tories, but elicited little more than a shrug from everybody else.

You take Jo Swinson, she voted for raising VAT, raising the cap on tuition fees, for reducing housing benefit, against paying higher benefits for those unable to work due to illness or disability, against raising welfare benefits (she did however vote to reduce them), against increasing the top level of income tax, against the bankers bonus tax, against the mansion tax, for reducing corporation tax, for HS2, against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament, against incentives for low carbon emissions, for culling badgers, against regulation for fracking, against greater regulation of the gambling industry, for the privatisation of Royal Mail, for restrictions to legal aid, and so on.

A voting record that is pretty much what you would expect from somebody in the Conservative party.

Kara_Jane_Adams wrote:

You take Jo Swinson, she voted for raising VAT, raising the cap on tuition fees, for reducing housing benefit, against paying higher benefits for those unable to work due to illness or disability, against raising welfare benefits (she did however vote to reduce them), against increasing the top level of income tax, against the bankers bonus tax, against the mansion tax, for reducing corporation tax, for HS2, against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament, against incentives for low carbon emissions, for culling badgers, against regulation for fracking, against greater regulation of the gambling industry, for the privatisation of Royal Mail, for restrictions to legal aid

Wow. That is... illuminating.

Back to Green Party for me then

Yeah, it was a great exchange for a referendum on a miserable little compromise.

Jesus stop sitting on the fence

There are no good Brexit policies but revoking article 50 is the only one that makes sense. Labour's big mistake is letting themselves get so wrapped up in Brexit. It should always have been treated as a Tory project that the electorate gave them permission to pursue but that Labour wouldn't and couldn't go ahead with. Now they're in this bind of being a Remain party, making out they'll do some great Brexit that no leavers could possibly like and then there'll be a vote that they're trying to pretend will offer some sort of choice. It's the same outcome but less honest.

I think that's just a byproduct of unpopular Corbyn is though. It's just 'who do you like more?' and then that reflects itself in all the other answers on who is more trusted on defence, economy, NHS, etc. 

Cameron was more trusted on the NHS than Miliband despite the Labour party as a whole being streets ahead of the tories on it.

Iain Duncan Smith was a more popular leader than Jeremy Corbyn is. So everything is in the toilet when you chuck him into the mix.

A lot of polls still being conducted by phoning land lines. Perhaps during working hours. Basically it's just old people.

They didn’t have the numbers with brown.

Funkstain wrote:

There are no good Brexit policies but revoking article 50 is the only one that makes sense.

I agree with this. Personally.

revoking A50 is a ludicrous, even dangerous sop to remainer extremists who simply cannot imagine a world where they have to actually live with the reality of what other people actually think

I also stand by this, and I know that you at least understand the dilemma. As a Socratic experiment, indulge this question: do you think it is a good idea for the country (as a whole) for the LibDems to stand on A50 revocation? Do you think it even represents the best chance to achieve that goal?

Yeah I agree with your quote as well. They might sound a bit contradictory but they aren't. You can't cancel Brexit and stuff the genie back into the bottle and go back to everything being fine and dandy. Just like how the middle-classes thought everything was pre-2016. Chukka Umunna can't rescind article 50 then get back to his dinner party. That's a recipe for riots. 

It's not an objectively good policy. It's democratically pretty dicey. But if it came from a Labour party with Corbyn's other policy platforms - regeneration, investment, public service upgrades, economic restructuring - then there's sufficient compensation to sort of placate some of that outrage. Giving people what they actually want, rather than what many (but not all) of them used the Brexit vote to get.   

I think the round-the-houses, renegotiate, then 2nd ref, and the pretence of neutrality just isn't going to do them any favours. Unless the Tory's "Get Brexit Done" line can be properly exposed for the sham that it is. 

And to finally get round to answering your question, I actually think this election is lined up quite well. The Tories and Labour are getting sandwiched from either side. They can't just own either the Remain side or Leave side through vague gesturing, those voters have all got somewhere else to go. Some other party snapping at their heels saying 'well no actually that's bollocks'. So yeah I don't necessarily think it's bad. The Brexit party are forcing the Tories to publically commit to more No deal bollocks, which isn't an advantage for them, they're just saying it to stop the bleeding. I don't know if the Lib dems are pulling Labour more towards Remain, but Corbyn has definitely been pulled there by years of continued pressure from a few angles.