Blue Swirl wrote:

Bear in mind that SFxT is riddled with bugs.

Oh really? 

Patch incoming?

Nick wrote:

Yeah. JRPC, when I'm work tomorrow I will write some thoughts about patience vs progression.

Cheers buddy

Blue Swirl wrote:

They've already patched it once and introduced more bugs. In fact, they introduced a new bug in the patch that causes your 360 to lock up. (I presume the same thing happens on PS3.)

Yeah, it's both versions. Each time Rolento's knife hits a projectile it happens. I was a bit offended that they had the gall to release new DLC gems and costumes when this shit wasn't fixed yet.

Right you lot, sort me out.

I got SF4 and then SSF4 way back and as much as I loved it at the beginning, I hit a serious wall quite early on and just wasn't getting any better. Couldn't even manage to do most of the combos in the training stages (tried to do Ryu's for literally hours). Eventually got frustrated and turned it off.

I love the idea of these games and I reckon if I could just find a way into it, I'd be hooked proper, but I struggled.

@JRPC

I’ll just talk a bit about learning to get to a competitive level at SFIV. It’s the one I recommend of the games you’re up for trying. I’m not sure of your knowledge and skill level, so I apologise if I’m over explaining things. I’ll briefly explain some terminology as there are inconspicuous words in the SF lexicon that have a very specific meaning.

Normals – any attack button or attack that isn’t a special move, super, ultra, throw or command normal.

Command Normal - a direction and attack button that creates a new move. An example is > + medium punch with Ryu which hits overhead.

Overhead – an attack that must be blocked standing up.

Combo – a string of attacks that the opponent is unable to block if the first hit connected.

Link – a strict timing combo. One that you can’t dial in like a tekken chain (punch punch kick you can press as quickly as you like, for an example in that game, and it will all connect).Links exist because when some moves connect, your opponent is a reeling animation of ‘recovery’, during which time your move ends and there is a very strict window of opportunity to input the next one.

Cancel – interrupting the animation of one move to combo a second. Normals cancel into special moves, special moves cancel into supers. It’s not a quirk of the game system like links, it’s a deliberate mechanic that allows you to pile on damage, and for new player it’s one of the first things to master. An example is cancelling Ryu’s standing fierce (hp) into a shoryuken. Whilst the fierce connects, input the shoryuken.

Lp/mp/hp lk/mk/hk – low punch, medium punch, hard punch, light kick, medium kick, hard kick

QCF - quarter circle forward motion used for hadouken, and inputted twice before many ultras

Crossup – jumping deliberately over someone’s head, and inputting a normal in the air that designed to hit them in the back. They face one way, and get hit from the other. It’s hard to block the right way, can even be as bad as 50% likely that they can block it, with no risk for you. This is called gambling in your favour, and it’s my whole playstyle.

- That’s as much terminology as you need to start deliberately practicing stuff that will help you win.

There are two ways you can get better at SFIV. One player things (1p) and two player things. The former requires more patience, but both lead to progression of skill.

1p

It’s about execution. Let’s take an easy example with Ryu, then something a bit harder.

Cancel combo

Let’s put a crossup in here so you practice two techniques at once. In training, jump over the dummy, and at the last possible moment in the air hit mk. You should hit their back shoulder and land next to them, automatically forcing them to switch direction. When it connects, hit hp, and immediately do a mp shoryuken for a 4 hit combo. If your struggling with the shoryuken, try activating it with down forward tapped twice rather than the traditional towards, down, down forward and punch. This is an input shortcut, SFIV is full of them.

When you can do this combo consistently, try it after you get a throw in a match. They can’t stand quickly, so it’s hard to block the air mk, therefore the rest will connect.

Another fun cancel combo. > +hp command normal, cancel into shoryuken.

Link Combo

Ryu has a silly little combo, where you can link his low medium punch into itself, and then link a low roundhouse for a knockdown (one which you can’t rise quickly from, giving you more advantage to plan your next move). To do this combo you hold down and press mp, mp, hk. Sounds easy? Well links like have a window of one or two sixtieths of a second in which you can input the next move. So how to practice this. Go into training mode, and when you press the mp, press lp at the same time both times. This doubles that window but letting the computer read it as two inputs. Then when you can get a two hit combo from low mp, low mp consistently try adding the hk. But press hk and mk at the same time to increase the chance of that one too. Whole combo:

Lp + mp > lp +mp > mk +hk

Cheap ass combo.

Set the dummy to jump. Do a lp shoryuken whilst he’s in the air. When he’s falling input two qcfs and all three punches. You’ll do an ultra fireball that he can’t avoid. Do this in every match where the opponent jumps a lot.

2p things.

Blocking. It’s underrated. Some games, just see how much pressure you can soak up before you’re hit. A bad to intermediate player can’t get free hits off you if you’re careful.

Everything above requires some patience, and doing that stuff alone is not fun in my opinion. So this is where it counts. Your progression here will live and die by how much you enjoy the game, so if there’s any way you can find someone of similar skill level for regular matches, that’s the best way possible to improve. But something I have been taought recently has really helped me, it’s about how you lose.

It’s fine- for your sanity as well as progression - to play and lose over and over on one condition. That you learned something. If the guy keeps jumping on you, and you had ultra lit, you could have some the cheap ass combo. If you got a throw and didn’t try a crossup combo, remember to next time. Just watch what the opponent does. Much of my play now is about seeing how much rope I need to hand the opponent for them to hang themselves. If they throw two fireballs in a row, move back and forward so you know you’re in jump in range to land a jumping hk into combo. If they jump all the time and you’re struggling to get the shoryuken out, just do down + hp over and over – half the life will disappear and you’re doing almost nothing.

Lastly, just cos I have to give a presentation in a minute, ask ask ask! If you’re really getting into it you’ll find the community is one of the best in gaming for sharing info. Shoryuken.com and mordor-mashup.com are you friends.

Happy fightans

There are many things in 3S I still can't execute with consistency after several years of practice (well, not in total) with a single character. It's a constant source of irritation and I definitely blame my tools.

So many combo things come down to sheer input rhythm, but you can count on a single hand the number of fightman games that have ever bothered to factor that into their training modes.

sf vs tekken is a more complex game imo. Mainly because the tagging element brings in X amount more options mid round/match. Its also a faster clusterfuck of a game (ahem marvel).

SFIV though is where you will learn better strategy (which can ultimately be applied to a wider selection of fighting games) like positioning, links and so forth.

iirc you work in south london near me so if you fancy some two player local then pop to wimbledon and we can go through some basic-intermediate stuff. If we ask nicely nick/james/ricky/Elf and pez might come too

main thing is.. stick or pad?

That was the one I was thinking of, indeed. Such a fucking missed trick, still.

@Nick: Cheers for that. Will have to read through that a few times. It don't half sound technical tho! That's one of the reasons I think I fancy it I guess, but it's a serious curve alright.

Will check out those sites you mentioned too.

mk64 wrote:

sf vs tekken is a more complex game imo. Mainly because the tagging element brings in X amount more options mid round/match. Its also a faster clusterfuck of a game (ahem marvel). SFIV though is where you will learn better strategy (which can ultimately be applied to a wider selection of fighting games) like positioning, links and so forth. iirc you work in south london near me so if you fancy some two player local then pop to wimbledon and we can go through some basic-intermediate stuff. If we ask nicely nick/james/ricky/Elf and pez might come too main thing is.. stick or pad?

Is that directed at me? Actually, I don't - but will soon. Moving there in Sept, so yeah sounds good

Never one for half measures, when the game first came out I bought the Tournament Stick. Currently sitting on top of my wardrobe looking pretty. 

OK, gonna stick with SSF4 then. General invitation to all: if you see me playing on LIVE, feel free to send me an invite and give me a pasting.

Edit: @Nick - timing!

Cool - JRPC, try having that info open whilst in training mode, it will all begin to make sense.

Hey dubs! Your Sakura is awesomes, I'd love to run out my fledgling DJ against it..

Yeah I'm up for a few games later, will dig the oily man stick out now.  It has both The Rock and Triple-H on it, magnificent.

Uh, it's just the standard WWE Brawlstick, I read that it has the similar innards to the Street Fighter SE sticks so I figured it was a fair substitute, burly men aside.

JRPC wrote:

I'll be on from around 7:30/8 of you fancy a few HADOOKEN's etc.

Football, dude, Football!!

I'll add you to my FL next time I get a chance to play something on my 360. Get into it, get better/good, then come to MM once you're a Londoner. Sorted, bruv!

(Nick, epic beginner's guide write-up!)

Despite only giving SFxT a brief run, the idea that it's more "beginner friendly" than SSF4 is utterly fucking ludicrous IMO. Edge were talking some next level nonsense when they said that, I'm sure.

Tutorial wise, maybe. Particularly if you're not tainted by too much experience of SF4.

Mechanically though? There's an awful lot going on compared to the simplicity of base Street Fighter.

Do i need the 'arcade' thing to play ssf4 with you lot?

Should i get i anyway?