Work - The pros and the cons... - The Bear and Badger

LivDiv

At John Lewis we would get people trying to return stuff to us from other stores WITH the receipt.
Your stereotypical JL clientele used to think we were like a public service or something. They genuinely thought we were there to handle their returns from all stores.

Call centre used to get people ringing up and treating them like director enquiries as well. Asking what time other stores closed or if we recommended tradesmen.

Wookienopants

I always swore I would never go back to working with the public again.

That turned out well huh?! Lol

LivDiv

Wookienopants wrote:

I always swore I would never go back to working with the public again.

That turned out well huh?! Lol

Couldn't do what you do.
I cant even handle working for someone anymore.

cockbeard

LivDiv wrote:

There are actually money laundering laws around it. Things must be returned to the account they were bought on, or cash if paid by cash. If they dont have a receipt the staff member cant know for certain that is being returned to the correct account I was always fine with a bank statement but if the customer had neither the most I would offer was store credit.

Once again though, just like in the tv license thread we're starting from a presumption of guilt not innocence. That's one of the reasons it pisses me off so much. Also the responsibility for "knowing" about the transaction lies with the store not the customer. At no point here am I excusing treating people like shit because they work in hospitality or retail, I'm saying it's a shit game, stop supporting it. These companies put their staff on the front line and place them in situations where they are very likely to encounter abuse just because they can't be bothered as a company to implement systems to properly deal with edge cases. Calling the firm out for shit policies and training isn't justifying abuse of their staff, unless those staff are the middle/senior management that formulate those policies and training

LivDiv

Well not really.
It is a very easy and recognised way of laundering money and if the store is found to break the rules the whole company could end up in a long and costly investigation, as could the staff member who will almost certainly receive a formal warning at the very least. All because some twat couldn't keep hold of their receipt.

Policies are a good thing in this scenario. It gives the member of staff something to fall back on. "Sorry that is the store policy, that I am not allowed to be flexible on. If you would prefer I can get a manager to explain it further."

If staff are given flexibility it can lead to inconsistency and claims of "well so and so gave me a refund last week".

If they kick off they are a cunt, cant do anything about cunts.

It's not like the policy is unreasonable. It's the fucking law.

cockbeard

So everyone who spends is a money launderer??

LivDiv

Everyone who tries to claim a refund but cant produce a receipt has potential to be a money launder yes.
Key word being potential. This is why for the most they are offered store credit or told to jog on. If they are a repeatedly doing it they would likely be flagged to security who may well pass that on to the police if they suspected foul play.

Diluted Dante

Cocko, I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Prove you bought this from me, when and for what price is a reasonable request to make of a customer asking you to give them money.

HawBawJaws

Diluted Dante wrote:

Cocko, I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Prove you bought this from me, when and for what price is a reasonable request to make of a customer asking you to give them money.

Pretty much what I was gonna say.

cockbeard

A receipt isn't the only way to do that, also the store have a record of the transaction, in fact the store have an obligation to keep a record of that transaction, I as a consumer have no such obligation

LivDiv

You do if you want a refund.

GooberTheHat

tigersgogrrr wrote:

I guess it is a bit insensitive. Far worse if you have a family to support too.

But if someone being insensitive is anything close to your worst retail experience, then you've lived a fairly charmed life in retail land, surely? I had people literally throw things at me.

I've had someone throw a chair at my head once. The "race crowd" after the Grand St Ledger was always teeming with cunts.

cockbeard

LivDiv wrote:

Policies are a good thing in this scenario. It gives the member of staff something to fall back on. "Sorry that is the store policy, that I am not allowed to be flexible on. If you would prefer I can get a manager to explain it further." If staff are given flexibility it can lead to inconsistency and claims of "well so and so gave me a refund last week".

I think this is part that I disagree on, I'd rather simply trust my staff, and then back their decisions up, which is what most don't want to do

GooberTheHat

cockbeard wrote:

But once again that no receipt no return thing is realistically bollocks, especially when implemented as a "policy", it says that it's your "policy" to assume all customers are liars

It's a perfectly valid policy.

HawBawJaws

cockbeard wrote:

A receipt isn't the only way to do that, also the store have a record of the transaction, in fact the store have an obligation to keep a record of that transaction, I as a consumer have no such obligation

So, you're suggesting you can walk in and say 'I bought a thing here and I want my money back, I can't prove I bought it, but you can, off you pop' that's a bit daft mate.

There were times in the bookies if someone had lost their slip we could find it for them, but only if it was a written bet, because then we could match it against the handwriting. Couldn't do it with football coupons etc, as that was open to abuse. Hada guy in Wishaw do a lost slip claim, knew all the teams, how much it was for, and roughly when the bet was placed. Turned out, he'd been talking to a guy in the pub when the last result came in, the guy had told him what he put on the coupon etc, so the sneaky wee bastard came in and claimed it. We only found out the following day, when the guy that actually placed the coupon came to collect, and we told him it'd already been paid.

LivDiv

What if you have misplaced trust in your staff?
How do you trust every member of staff in a store like the JL that I used to work in that had 1000 employees, especially when some of these are temps.

cosmicjellybean

cockbeard wrote:

A receipt isn't the only way to do that, also the store have a record of the transaction, in fact the store have an obligation to keep a record of that transaction, I as a consumer have no such obligation

And outside a credit card transaction (which most places would even take a bank statement that doesn’t even show you the thing they bought, but will take in good faith) how does a store prove you bought something? Go through CCTV?

The store does in fact have a way of recording this and giving you the option! It’s handing you this slip of paper, see, with all the details the person behind the till would need to... oh wait!

afgavinstan

The policy in HMV when it came to physical media was refunds only if it was faulty. This ain't Blockbuster, and you ain't running a dvd ripping business. Away you go.

HawBawJaws

GooberTheHat wrote:

tigersgogrrr wrote:

I guess it is a bit insensitive. Far worse if you have a family to support too.

But if someone being insensitive is anything close to your worst retail experience, then you've lived a fairly charmed life in retail land, surely? I had people literally throw things at me.

I've had someone throw a chair at my head once. The "race crowd" after the Grand St Ledger was always teeming with cunts.

Had a guy in the casino once try to throw a stool at me over a roulette table. All because I was trying to pay him more than he was technically allowed - he'd exceeded the maximum bet on the winning number, so i was trying to get his Mrs (who spoke better English) to claim the excess as a separate bet for her, so i could pay it, then pay the rest to him. Wee prick this guy was, owned a shitehole of a takeaway on paisley Road West, thought he was something special because he'd drop a few grand a night. Guy was about 5ft 2, if he'd tried that shit outside of my work I would've slapped the taste out of his mouth.

LivDiv

At JL we could call up to accounts to see if they could track a transaction but that was really situational.
It depending on if accounts were in as they didnt work full opening hours. If they had someone available. The fact our department (floor coverings) was high ticket low turnover so tracking stuff from our department was easy. We had a policy to only take returns on our department due to other departments accepting returns for rugs that looked like they had been dragged behind the car on the way back.

We had no obligation to do that.

HawBawJaws

Drugs???

LivDiv

Haha, typo I just changed.
I wouldnt be suprised if some rugs tested positive though.

We would have people who had carpets fitted, clearly have a party then ring up complaining about the fitting job saying they want the whole lot replaced.

HawBawJaws

Edit: was meant to be an emoji. Still not figured them out on here yet.

GooberTheHat

HawBawJaws wrote:

GooberTheHat wrote:

tigersgogrrr wrote:

I guess it is a bit insensitive. Far worse if you have a family to support too.

But if someone being insensitive is anything close to your worst retail experience, then you've lived a fairly charmed life in retail land, surely? I had people literally throw things at me.

I've had someone throw a chair at my head once. The "race crowd" after the Grand St Ledger was always teeming with cunts.

Had a guy in the casino once try to throw a stool at me over a roulette table. All because I was trying to pay him more than he was technically allowed - he'd exceeded the maximum bet on the winning number, so i was trying to get his Mrs (who spoke better English) to claim the excess as a separate bet for her, so i could pay it, then pay the rest to him. Wee prick this guy was, owned a shitehole of a takeaway on paisley Road West, thought he was something special because he'd drop a few grand a night. Guy was about 5ft 2, if he'd tried that shit outside of my work I would've slapped the taste out of his mouth.

I was a skinny 17 or 18 year old at the time. I was pretty confident, but looking back I'm glad I was at work and did the sensible thing, or I would have probably got a kicking.

LivDiv

Never had anyone be aggressive face to face but my dept was right near the car park.
One day some woman got car park rage and ended up with her Aston Martin parked on top of another car with the other driver still in it.

cockbeard

Had to go collect some food, once again we're always starting from a presumption of guilt on the part of the punter, never on the part of the company. Realistically why do I want to return something, chances are because it's faulty. The more often we assume people are cunts the more cunts we create, yes there are some irredeemable fuckers, but is that really the majority?? If so then cull them, but also remember we are them

afgavinstan

As with everything that started Good, a select few Cunts made it Bad and ruined it for all.

GooberTheHat

If proof of purchase wasn't required every company would have to charge exactly the same for the same item. No one would be able to offer a money of special.

LivDiv

So what is your alternative?
How do we stop people buying 4 Macbook Pros on a credit card then returning them to different stores for cash refunds thus laundering £10k in an afternoon?

How do you stop people buying a pair of Levis for £50 in a Debenhams blue cross sale, walking nextdoor and returning them to the Levis store for £75, pocketing £25?

Receipts and returns are part of the sales contract entered into by both parties. The store recognises it will accept returns within 28 days if proof of purchase is provided. As is the law.

cockbeard

You stop any of those events happening on a case by case basis by giving your staff the relevant tools and training to deal with what are, after all, edge cases

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