General VR and AR chinwag
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I've been wondering if it'd be possible to do something like the opposite of those cameras you can refocus after you've taken the picture.
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I dunno what you mean, i know the cameras you refer to but dunno the relevance
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No I've never used one Gunn. My observation is merely based on all the videos I've seen of it being used.LazyGunn wrote:
have you used an OR mr g? OR software does model that movement. In a setup in say, a 3d engine, you render the scene through two cameras, one for each eye, most good controllers are infinitely adjustable and calibrate mainly for your ipd (distance between pupils). The cameras move like 'children' to the head but independantly of each other. All the clever stuffs all in there. Its not disorientating in the manner you suggest, its disorientating when low framerate (in cpu ticks), screen refresh rate (lcd refresh) or in game head movement does not correspond to your own body's senses, particularly the last thing contributes to the well known nausea that beginning OR usrs can feel for a week or two after some time using the device in applications well suited to the device, as in they run at a high frame rate and never take control of your virtual head away from you, its a very immersive initially startling experience and has to be experienced to really be understood, even though technically we do the same thing all the freaking time in normal eyesightg.man wrote:See, the fundamental flaw with all this head tracking malarky ^ is that it's a disorientating mess because the rift is currently incapable of replicating the two different planes of movement between the human head and eye, and the fixed single plane of movement of the in game camera. For this sort of tech to ever become popular in a mainstream way someone has to come up with some clever tech to make the lens of the game camera move independently of the actual game camera and centre on what the eyes of the OR wearer is actually looking at. Basically it requires sensors built in to the headgear that track the movements of your eyes as well as tracking the movement of your head.
It's nice to know it's technically possible then, but I've yet to see any compelling video evidence of it's successful implementation.
cheers
g.manCome with g if you want to live... -
You cant watch its implementation without actually wearing one g, the current devkit uses a 1280x800 7 inch lcd panel and an OR app renders each camera to the corresponding half of the panel. A post image effect applies a barrel distortion to each image in software then you view these images via the headset, one half for each eye, each eye having a lens which, and this is a bit im a bit flaky with but hey, works with the barrel distortion to have the image fill the eyes vision extending beyond the periphery. There is a kinda 'frame', like looking through swimming goggles although a lot more generous than that, but the image itself goes a little bit beyond and the frame is from the size of the lens thing, not the panel - this is in a 'proper' setup, you can generally adjust things so you see more of the panel, or less.. lots of stuff can be adjusted, the odest one being how your ipd relates to the 3d worlds units, you can dial the setting and you only initially notice an odd sensation but as you move you realize the relative scale has changed, and objects can go from being percieved as tiny to being moon sized while not changing scale in the display - the whole depth perception thing is weird when you have control of it with a parameter. In fact most of the screenspace is kinda wasted on filling peripheral vision although i think the distortion and lens are a kind of optimisation where it pulls pixel detail towards the center of your vision, the pixels are denser where you'll look most than at the periphery
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LazyGunn wrote:I dunno what you mean, i know the cameras you refer to but dunno the relevance
Some kind of a display that emits a light field that can then be focused at different points, like you get in the real world. Preferably (necessarily?) multidirectional, too. -
There's a device that was a well publicised recent kickstarter, might be linked in this thread actually, that worked by using thousands of tiny mirrors i figure to bounce light at a specific point on your retina. It wasnt really challenging the OR's space though as it was said to recreate a feel of watching a very large tv from a few meters away, the image is very sharp but the lack of wrapping the image round your eyes field of vision basically blows the sense of immersion. Probs costs a bomb too
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Yeah, I've seen that. Interesting first step of that specific tech, but I want something that works for TVs and the like too.
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I thought there was some realtime hologram tech? Plus the old "project on a rotating helix" lark. -
HMD and wiimote type interface tool, sure, I'm definitely game.
Anything that involves strapping myself into an oversized baby walker and shuffling around like a gonk - sorry, nope, I'm out. -
Yep. Ridiculous. -
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Send messageYEAH FUCK ALL THIS IMMERSION SHIT, THATS NOT WHAT WE GOT INTO GAMES FOR."Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1." -
I've just laughed out loud at t'leisurely back-pedalling. A Jackson sim, and I'm in.
I'm tempted - after about half-a-minute's thought - to say that a screen with some vertical wraparound as well as horizontal would be the best solution.
An oval-bowl-shaped monitor. -
Good article. It does excite me what they'll come up with in the next couple of years. I reckon a 3D platfomer akin to Mario would be the be all and end all if it was done right...
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I'm scared of heights so it'd probably reduce me to a sweaty, gibbering mess of vomit.
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Goddammit, Japan:
Again - doomed race. -
Fuck it.
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http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2014/01/oculus-rift
the resons this is awesome - all the work sans motion tracking has been bug fixing, no new unneeded features. that is very cool
i dont think theyll stop at 1080p, may a tiered release with some 4k displays (you computer still has to have the power to process for those resolutions, hence a few flavours), amoled screens will improve the low resolution effect but i cant see it stopping there. i think the motion tracking thing is great, itll lower nausea stuff and just be plain cool but i think their implementation will change, or therell be other options, and a kinect based motion tracker involved somewhere
the fact they HAVE been focussing mostly on 'bug' fixes is great, very pragmatic and maybe Carmacks experience showing there, some guidelines to developers about how to mitigate nausea (dont take away head control or develop devices for distraction to remove any nausea-related movement) and their work on latency and ghosting is really good
the only major thing i can think of them adding is a forward facing camera for when you need to see the real world (and this can then be combined for AR scenarios). it looks great though
im hoping the U4 tech demos released will play well enough on the old kit, because i'd like to have a sneak look at U4 before most people can
i'm definitely going to be buying the new devkit on arrival, i just have no idea how
time to go look at the or developers site to see if i can grab the U4 stuff, and on request of a friend, get metroid prime on the OR sorted -
You should have a look at the last few pages of the next gen thread Gunn, there has been a bit of discussion in there regarding OR and you could probably clear up an confusion and assumptions people have made (including me). -
djchump wrote:
That's a nice article, and i liked the comment on FPS etc being unsuitable, cause without some serious R&D put into how to pull these off without motion sickness, people are being forced into new genres
I'm calling a lot of these 'walk em ups', even if not always walking, because the pace is entirely different, but no worse for it, my big work of 2014 is pretty much based on this idea, although you'll be driving around and flying. I'll without doubt have OR in mind though, through every aspect of it (Although it'll be playable in regular form of course)
I think its all very exciting, and i'll definitely be making toys and sketch programs with the second devkit - for all its awesome, its just too cumbersome to make anything for my current devkit
For anyone who i havent told yet, the 'walk-em-up' is most spectacularly displayed in Dear Esther, which hasnt been designed for OR so bits that rely on only one camera being there for projection, like reflections, are completely messed up and its generally not a good idea to look at any reflective surfaces, but it's as close to a transcendental experience ive ever had with a computer game when using the OR - it blew my mind and i'd hope it would be similar for others -
GooberTheHat wrote:You should have a look at the last few pages of the next gen thread Gunn, there has been a bit of discussion in there regarding OR and you could probably clear up an confusion and assumptions people have made (including me).
I'll have a look -
I will when not at work. Some sites are blocked for unknown reasons.
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djchump wrote:
I hope youre still good for that letting me nag you promise you made (If you dont rmember, i might have made it up, but keep to it), then your abilities could be fecking helpful with my new thinger. I've got the help of someone awesome too that i'm not going to namedrop in public but all sorts of ambition is happening in lazygunn land -
To be honest I recommend whatever you're playing, play it sat down and relax/recline your body as much as possible while still being able to enjoy the movement. One fun thing OR made me realise was how much better a bunch of games are when you're playing them laid on your back. But in this case I say it because you're no longer tensing yourself up hunched at a monitor and since your body still cant relate to on-screen things (Just so long as your head can), hunching up is just tiring and uncomfortable. Being relaxed physically will prob help you disassociate from your body anyways, let you assume the avatars physicality more readily if your real body isnt taking up attention
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Dear Esther is no kind of poster child. It sucks a fuck.
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