Is it safe to say no one went thirsty after that?

Dinostar77 wrote:

Kow, not sure if you have seen it but you might like it for shits and giggles. https://videobin.co/qwp1y8i7kplt Its episode 1. Secret of Skinwalker Ranch

Episode 1? It's a series?

Morning badgers, me again

djchump wrote:

@Hair: BTW, thank you for the replies, it clarified a few things for me.

You're very welcome Scepticism should always be the starting position for any incredible claims.

Looking for answers to your supplemental questions, something to consider with multiple accounts both written and presented. Some details will be unintentionally contradictory by process of the different views, time elapsed etc but it's the series of chained events as a whole which focuses my interest in understanding what happened in 2004.

djchump wrote:

That makes sense why they weren't more concerned on first radar contact. I still think even if it was drug runners they should be recording all possible channels, not just the (classified) radar. And am still mystified why none of the 4 people involved turned on any recording kit when they saw the "tictac". Have all 4 done interviews saying they saw the exact same thing?

All the pilots (in the report) were looking around and down out of the canopy as nothing was on the plane radar at their 'merge plot'. Some much larger object seemed to be under the water and causing white surf on the blue sea (the size of a 737) which is the only reason they got the visual on the comparatively small 40ft white 'Tic Tac'. Fravor told the other plane to remain in a circling holding position while he and his WSO took a closer look.

Helmet cam recording causes nausea, something about looking at cockpit screens, instruments simultaneously. Fravor mentions this and much more in the interview below.

djchump wrote:

Makes sense, and does explain why FLIR doesn't turn or try to get a closer look at the object

It can't turn much, as it's a fixed targeting system
and forward facing

djchump wrote:

- although the History Channel reconstruction implied that the 2nd pilot was "going up to find that thing", somewhat massaging the truth there.

Still engaged in the fleet training exercise, Fravor and his crew naturally mentioned this encounter to the outgoing second squadron, wanting to please the boss seems valid. Far as they knew (not having a direct coms to the Cruiser radar ops - as this point, all the Pilots were on the Carrier) the object was possibly still at their CAP.

djchump wrote:

Given that they couldn't get a range on the object in FLIR video, and were at high zoom, it doesn't seem at all "coincidentally close" TBH.

It was hovering near there CAP when the second sorte (about 30 miles I think) FLIR picked up the (same?)object. Worth knowing this sensor isn't normally used for combat but IR ground targeting at a closer range. The F18 radar could 'see' it but was being jammed by the UFO so couldn't get a (weapon) lock. They were on auto pilot (not going very fast, because every unnecessary aggressive manoeuvre has a fuel cost) and heading to the training area. Seemingly in the FLIR clip, the object felt they were getting to close and made off. Appears to me like it was messing with the pilots.



Any debunking of this capture should note the FI8 was nose facing as was the FLIR, perfectly consistent with the pilot testimony, who said the thing just exited the FOV and was gone.

Fravor talks about the whole event in great detail this fascinating and informative pilot to pilot discussion. A must listen IMO.



Off for a toot!

Dinostar77 wrote:

Kow, not sure if you have seen it but you might like it for shits and giggles.

https://videobin.co/qwp1y8i7kplt

Its episode 1. Secret of Skinwalker Ranch

https://mixdrop.co/f/pk49kz4ki9vj4r

Epsiode 2

https://videobin.co/bwoiog6hf6u7

Episode 3

https://mixdrop.co/f/l6n7vp17hdw9x6

Episode 4

https://mixdrop.co/f/4nv86xgruqklo4v

Episode 5

This is quite entertaining series. Will add links as i go.

Episode 6 and 7 havent aired yet

Up to end of episode 2. Spoiler for up to end of episode 2.

bad_hair_day wrote:

It can't turn much, as it's a fixed targeting system
and forward facing

I'm not sure how true that is. The camera has a wide FOV and can be slew to capture targets that aren't directly in front of the aircraft.

bad_hair_day wrote:

The F18 radar could 'see' it but was being jammed by the UFO so couldn't get a (weapon) lock. They were on auto pilot (not going very fast, because every unnecessary aggressive manoeuvre has a fuel cost) and heading to the training area.

No, In the testimony provided below "Lt XXXX stated that there were no jamming cues". And that the radar just couldn't hack it.

bad_hair_day wrote:

Any debunking of this capture should note the FI8 was nose facing as was the FLIR, perfectly consistent with the pilot testimony, who said the thing just exited the FOV and was gone.

Again, not quite true. In the image you provided (posted below) they state "Lt XXXX made no attempt to slew the FLIR and subsequently lost situational awareness of the object.

Goobs, the FILR has FOV limits at operating on it's boundaries which was my point really.  

There were no conventional jamming cues?  Not conversant with what happens when another jet attempts an active jam, but all the pilots said they couldn't get a lock on the objects. Fravor has mentioned a few times he though because of this inability (advanced tech?) it was jamming them.

'As LT XXXX watched the object it began to move out of the FLIR field of view to the left LT XXXX made no attempt to slew the FLIR and subsequently lost situational awareness of the object' 

'Made no attempt to slew'. Doubt it was he couldn't be bothered after the convos with the skipper/ what had transpired earlier. Sounds too inconsistent and probably a fault of the investigator misunderstanding or just clumsy grammar? 

Fravor says in this interview I linked earlier, the report is good, but there are natural inconsistencies due to time passed, and various viewpoints and can only justify his own recollection. Happy with that honest view, and why I mentioned this could happen in my previous preamble.

but all the pilots said they couldn't get a lock on the objects.

Then why did you say

The F18 radar could 'see' it but was being jammed by the UFO so couldn't get a (weapon) lock

When no one appears to have claimed this to be the case (at least not at the time) ?

They would have made that assessment having full knowledge of the of the systems capabilities, and state at the time of capture, and would therefore know if the WO was able to slew or not.

What I find odd is the jumps to conclusions that it was a some kind of vehicle or device.

The radar thing stands out.
Radar couldn't detect it.
Conclusuon: It was jamming radar.

Why is that the conclusion and not something more logical like it being made of something not detectable by radar?

The reason seems to be the desire for this to be high tech alien stuff.

But that's the extent of the recording, which was partly the catalyst getting the investigation started five years later. It appeared on YouTube in 2007-2008 (which was probably put on a pen drive in 2004 from the FLIR tape before it was reused) and taken down once the ATTIP got wind.

Got an article about the whole complicated business, I'll fish around for it.

Look chaps, doing my best to address the details but look at the wood, not the trees so much?

Ah yeah. White is well known for being detected by radar.

Goobs, here's that long article on the FLIR tape history and others. Acronyms ahoy!

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a30538203/navy-ufo-video-investigation/

Guess I am.

bad_hair_day wrote:

Look chaps, doing my best to address the details but look at the wood, not the trees so much?

But you're claiming its a wood of oak, unless we look at the trees to see if they can be proved to be oak, then I'm not going to agree that it's an oak wood.

And that's the crux of the issue, I don't consider Fravor a reliable witness, you do.