I watched Rogue One again about two weeks ago. Great Star Wars film.

God I can't wait for episode 9 where JJ tries to retcon the shit out of tlj and give the fans everything they want to bobbie getting being a scarred grandpa who is the new Jabba the Hutt and the opening night audience is covered in their own seminal fluid after the first action sequence.

Easy as fuck

I’m hoping the Poe and Finn love affair becomes a real thing just to piss off twats.

Poe, Rose, Finn polyamorous relationship. And Chewie too.

g.man wrote:

So...where does Ep9 actually now go with it's narrative then? Thoughts anyone?

Tribble Trouble but with Porgs.

Roujin wrote:

The issue I have is that this kind of new criticsm, this overwhelmingly thorough, hugely reductive and painstakingly analytical style of inspection of a film that has been fostered online would probably crush any number of classics including the OG films by virtue of ultimately not being a useful mode of understanding stories. It’s all about formalisation of ideas into hard logical ideas, very game feeling systems of progression and so on that have to make absolute logical sense at all times... and that’s simply not what stories are about? They’re full of contrivances and shortcuts to reinforce themes and ideas. They’re full of mistakes and concessions, of characters doing what they want as opposed to perfectly following on the arcs of expectation. Resolution is allowed to be unsatisfactory, because in life it so often is. Tying things up with a bow is equally criticised, so the line of acceptance feels incredibly narrow. I understand why this mode of criticism is popular, and why it tends to rear its head more around things like Star Wars and the Marvel films and so on, but I am not sold on it as being in any way constructive. It’s definitely reductive, and I think it may well lead to safe studio films being made even safer, but I worry that we’ve reached a critical mass online of a certain type of review being tolerated and accepted over any other type. I dunno, I’m rambling here, but ultimately I think there are plenty of valid reasons to dislike TLJ and plenty to love it, but as someone in the middle but closer to the latter side, all I ever seem to hear are arguments that paint Rian Johnson as some kind of cartoon villain who incompetently failed upwards and made a SW film that was utterly full of mistakes that no one at any production level noticed, instead of someone who attempted to tell a story that they thought would resonate with a modern audience. The tools being used to prove that seem to me fairly unhelpful. There are more pertinent things to deconstruct, such as whether the ideas and and themes presented are even worth attempting in a big race to the bottom franchise like SW. But sure, the inconsistency, childishly calling Rian names, a stupid petition to get a film remade instead of just accepting it and moving on.

I'm 100% on board with this, i have no truck with pointless nitpicking for the sake of it, and the emotionless, robotic way in which people go through a film and say 'OMG SCIENCE DOESNT WORK THIS WAY' or the repugnant way I have to wade through a tide of totally disproportionate criticism relating to the way female characters behave compared to male character. There is definitely an increasingly large group for whom suspension of disbelief seems to be a struggle, or just somethign that is getting in the way of having a circlejerk trashing of a movie for the sake of having a the circlejerk and revelling in LOL THIS IS SO SHIT LMAO LOOK AT ALL THESE PEOPLE ENJOYING IT, DUM DUMS! The personal attacks on director and actors, etc. It all comes together and reeks of internet nerd fanboyism in the worst way. or just people who are cunts full stop, they're all in the mix.  In particular, siting the RLM videos as an example, I think that was a lot of people's first experience of looking at a film with a critical eye and trying to break it down and analyse what made it good or bad. The only problem with that is that the Plinkett videos only worked so well because the prequels were devoid of almost anything positive beyond the VFX and that somehow that kind of eye should be cast over every film in that manner, with no accounting for conext, size of production, etc. Like no nuance at all applied to anything, just go in there and critique every aspect of a film no matter what the context.  I agree with you that it's not constructive and that in conjunction with budget size, the reception of a film online is probably a big factor in the development of a lot of films now, and it must be having a homogenising effect somewhere, I mean we live in an age of reboots and milking sequels out of anything that manages to do well at the box office. It's more business than art at this point, or thats how it feels to me and that makes me sad. Aint gonna be no more short circuits, aint gonna be no more batteries not included, aint gonna be no more Leons, Big Trouble in Little Chinas, no more Predators (I don't mean the franchise, rip Predator my son, am so sorry for u), no more Citizen Kane's thats fucking fo sho. no more 2001s. At least not in the same way, all those kind of films these days exist in a much smaller space it seems, perhaps with the exception of films made by directors who end up with a rep for producing certain kinds of films well, the Del Toros, Tim Burtons, etc. That's how it feels to me, I could be chatting ultimate breeze though.  I think we're on the same page-ish, but you are much less old and jaded and grumpy than old man Rouj. To your credit.

I'm pretty sure Empire would stand up to that hyper-analysis but maybe not, who knows. 
Not disagreeing anyway but the hyper-analytical approach does work both ways. I've seen twitter screeds justifying some of TLJ's unpopular bits with reference to old lore. How it's in keeping with the old films because if you look at the dialogue in this bit of this 40 year old film and look at this paragraph in this book that Rian Johnson said he read when writing the film then it's all perfectly consistent. I've watched (although I shouldn't have) 20 minute youtube videos going through each characters arc and how all good stories have arcs and this has arcs so this is a good story. 

The Plinket vid touched on it, but you can either go two ways with Star Wars. Stale rehash or new direction. JJ did the first and it wasn't good. At least Johnson tried the second but it was also not good.

I really liked that review,much to nobody's surprise. Bravo Mr Plinkett!!!

I totally agree that it was a worthwhile gamble giving Rian Johnson free reign to write and direct. Things could have gone the other way and it been a fucking barnstormer of a movie.

I take issue with the dismissal of the hyper analysis though. For me, I didn't sit watching with a pen and clipboard noting down plot holes and shit,out of place jokes. I was in a cinema having a few beers looking to enjoy a star wars movie. The issues in the movie weren't exactly hard to spot and even harder to ignore when they were coming so thick and fast.
And yeah Im sure the OG trilogy wouldnt stand up to hyper analysis either. But who cares? They were great movies!

Anyhoo Im pumped full of drowsy making anti flu meds so thank you and goodnight.

GREAT NEWS EVERYBODY!

Still can't understand why last Jedi is seen as the film which broke star wars when there are the three pieces of pure drivel known as the prequels out there.

I suppose, but there is a gulf in quality between the prequels and the rest that I'm amazed they haven't been stricken from the franchise.

I can see a reeboot of the prequels after Lucas pops his clogs.

Johnson not having the answer to any of the questions that Abrams threw up in The Force Awakens breaks the franchise a little bit. Hardly subverting expectations when Abrams is involved though.

You know what?

I broke out my SW BR box set last night - 'twas a birthday present off my Amazon wishlist.

So far I have only watched Eps 4 and 5 - but I decided to watch a prequel last night and I chose the one I remembered being the best of them. Bear in mind I am a prequel apologist who thought they were OK and enjoyed them. 

Watched Ep2 and I actually enjoyed it.  You have to ignore some of it - the awkward romance scenes for one.

But you know - I think it works OK. It has got some good stuff.

The chase through the city after the assassin is enjoyable.

I like MacGregor as Obi-Wan. And he gets a case to solve and goes up against Jango. All good.

I liked the robot factory sequence too and the subsequent set piece in the arena.

I also like the battle scene that follows that. 

Then you have Lee as Count Dooku and you get to see Yoda fight. What's not to like?

It moves the story on toward Ep 4 quite well I feel without feeling forced. Nothing feels contrived the way Eps 7 and 8 have felt. It hangs together reasonably well.

There's the first bit of good CGI acting that I can remember - when Watto recognises Anniken. It still holds up well.

Of course there is the issue of Christensen  -but he is younger - looks far younger than I remember actually - so the fact he is a pain in the arse and his lines are stilted kind of makes sense. He is wooden for the most part of course but there are one or two scenes in which he is OK. He does best when with MacGregor.  They could have made a nice film of them just having scraps and scrapes actually.

The romance is agonising but mercifully the scenes are short - shorter than you will remember - and looking at it again - there are a couple of them that are sort of OK that would have been enough to move that storyline along on their own.

His sullenness is actually put to good use when he loses it after his mother dies. He looks pretty good when he is moving.

During the scene in the arena, Portman lands on the back of the creature behind Christensen and gives him a peck on the cheek and it is actually quite sweet. But says more about Portman's ability - she does her best with the awful dialogue. (most of SW dialogue is awful - by no means unique to the prequels).

You can also see that the attempts at comedy relief with 3PO and R2 in the arena scene - while not that bad - are at odds with the general feeling of dread that Lucas is attempting to convey. I think that is what the prequels biggest fault is - they take themselves far too seriously and don't live up to it. The sense of dread is done so much better in Ep5.  The prequels are on average 30mins too long but they aren't unique in that.

And there's a scene showing Anniken and Padme as shadows on Tantooine - and he does look like Vader in it and I believe that is deliberate. Some think it isn't or is too obvious. I prefer to think it deliberate and I like it.

Ah well.  Ep1 will remain unwatchable for me. Even the thought of sitting through it is painful. But I can enjoy 2. I may wait a while and take on 3.

Everyone saying The Last Jedi has broken Star Wars should be forced to watch Episode 1 all the way through.