Retro Gaming - The Bear and Badger

davyK

Daytona was a wreck - the pop up was horrendous. I passed on that one. Sega Rally is a different story. Majestic game on Saturn.

Moot_Geeza

I've got fond memories of the Bug! demo, but it didn't warrant a purchase. Clockwork Knight 2 was rather good at the time, but suffered from the woefully short thing Sega used to enjoy.

I've never liked Daytona at home, The borked handling of the CCE edition, which I paid full price for, means it'd place highly on my pile o' regret.

Pazner has the best Saturn exclusive OST imo.

Moot_Geeza

Core Design put an impressive amount of effort into their 32-bit soundtracks.

Pretty much the whole soundtrack to this one is a love letter to Elfman:

and of course:

JonB

The UK launch of the Saturn has to be the biggest fuck up of its kind in gaming history, especially off the back of the 32X. Anything they could have done wrong they did, and then some.

Escape

Panzy Dragon had a fantastic intro. Set the bar for the glitchy mess that followed way too high.

davyK

There are those who say if Sega had held their nerve and released a bit later without rushed titles it might have fared better but the organisation was split with infighting and was hemorrhaging money after the madness of multiple market splitting, consumer confusing, ill-conceived Megadrive add-ons.

Later games such as Sega Rally, Athlete Kings, VF2, Radiant Silvergun et al showed what it could do but it was too late. Great shame. Said this before but retrospectively it's my favourite console of that gen though that is largely to do with its superb Japanese library.

retroking1981

I can see that point of view.

The Saturns strengths are clear now and much like the best 16Bit output it's arguably aged better than the early 3D stuff.

Knowing what I know now though I'd still have ignored it for PS and N64, the excitement at that 3D evolution was very real.

Wrong console at the wrong time, Mega CD/32X and the East West divide at Sega were it's problems. In hindsight it never stood a chance.

optimark_prime

nick_md wrote:

I did some work on HOTD:Overkill, decent game. Have the TOTD version too but that sadly lacks local 2p afaik.

How on earth the final level of Overkill got past the censors, I’ll never know!

Wonderful game.

davyK

retroking1981 wrote:

I can see that point of view. The Saturns strengths are clear now and much like the best 16Bit output it's arguably aged better than the early 3D stuff. Knowing what I know now though I'd still have ignored it for PS and N64, the excitement at that 3D evolution was very real. Wrong console at the wrong time, Mega CD/32X and the East West divide at Sega were it's problems. In hindsight it never stood a chance.

I was caught up in the hype for 3D too - though I wasn't completely swept away by it. My first console that generation was N64 - sold entirely on Mario 64 - though with the added spice of updates for Mario Kart , F-Zero and Pilotwings.

I waited for all 3 consoles to come out though I will admit I was a bit of a Nintard back then. But I wasn't all that impressed by what I saw in the PS and Saturn demo pods - they only strengthend my will to hold out for what Nintendo had in store and M64 blew everything away when it appeared.

Thing with N64 was while its big games were great they didn't scratch my arcade experience itch. I wanted to play good arcade racing games and shooters. And that's why my 2nd console that gen was Saturn. I picked up one for dirt cheap pre-owned and I can remember the games I got with it....Sega Rally, Darius Gaiden and Loaded.

Sega Rally and Darius Gaiden were exactly what I was looking for. Loaded left me cold though - offloaded that but I bought up a pile of PAL Saturn games going for a song at the time.

PS came later - sold to me on the strength of unusual games such as Parrapa The Rapper but also the retro compilations from the likes of Capcom and Namco. I never really bought into the typical PS adventure game with narrative led play but I amassed a decent library of quirky and older school games for it.

In terms of my gaming tastes, Saturn wins that gen - but I can why its library couldn't have won back then. It was the same with Dreamcast sadly.

davyK

optimark_prime wrote:

I did some work on HOTD:Overkill, decent game. Have the TOTD version too but that sadly lacks local 2p afaik.

How on earth the final level of Overkill got past the censors, I’ll never know! Wonderful game.

I really got into Overkill.

I've bought 2 of the Buckshot pump action shotgun wii remote shells - playing with that - it's really hard not to have a stupid wide grin on your face. First time I used the Buckshot I blew away my high scores. Tremendous entertainment.

I bought a 2nd copy of the game - a special edition with 2 hand cannons. Beating Director's Cut mode unlocks dual wield mode - with those hand cannons it is so much fun I feel guilty. You don't score well with combos though as it's just too damn tempting to blast away alternating triggers.

optimark_prime

davyK wrote:

optimark_prime wrote:

I did some work on HOTD:Overkill, decent game. Have the TOTD version too but that sadly lacks local 2p afaik.

How on earth the final level of Overkill got past the censors, I’ll never know! Wonderful game.

I really got into Overkill.

I've bought 2 of the Buckshot pump action shotgun wii remote shells - playing with that - it's really hard not to have a stupid wide grin on your face. First time I used the Buckshot I blew away my high scores. Tremendous entertainment.

I bought a 2nd copy of the game - a special edition with 2 hand cannons. Beating Director's Cut mode unlocks dual wield mode - with those hand cannons it is so much fun I feel guilty. You don't score well with combos though as it's just too damn tempting to blast away alternating triggers.

I bought the Bang Bang Box edition (or whatever it was called) which came with two magnums and a comic.

retroking1981

davyK wrote:

In terms of my gaming tastes, Saturn wins that gen - but I can why its library couldn't have won back then. It was the same with Dreamcast sadly.

It was unfortunately, it still did that arcade thing perfectly but at a time when the masses wanted longer story driven games.

That continued with 360/PS3 but with an emphasis on online multiplayer to, it was the Wii that gen that provided the pick up and play quirky titles and couch co-op.

davyK

optimark_prime wrote:

I bought the Bang Bang Box edition (or whatever it was called) which came with two magnums and a comic.

That was it - don't think I've even looked at the comic.

zonipoi

The Saturn controller arrived today and it really is great, can't think of a better d-pad. Tried Sega Rally and the console does work which is nice and the game is great too. Hope I get more games next week.

Moot_Geeza

Gradually working myself into a bit of a 'must play Saturn again' lather.

davyK

zonipoi wrote:

The Saturn controller arrived today and it really is great, can't think of a better d-pad. Tried Sega Rally and the console does work which is nice and the game is great too. Hope I get more games next week.

It's hard to think of a classic style controller that is better. That d-pad is special, but even the simple action of pressing a button to select an option on the main menu of Sega Rally is pleasurable.

It is a source of bewilderment to me that they didn't plonk that same dpad on the Dreamcast controller. Not sure why they dropped 2 face buttons either - but then they did release a sensibly priced arcade stick for the DC which is gorgeous.

Escape

Blue Swirl

Eric wrote:

Still on my wanted list. I saw it for £30 on ebay and should have committed, instead I faffed about and missed out and now its a £60+ game (caveat that the Jpn game goes for peanuts)

I can beat that. I saw Pocket Reversi for the Neo Geo Pocket Color in HMV for 20 quid, back in t' day. I thought "nah, I'll leave it, grab it next week when I've been paid". Never saw it on a shelf again. Now it's one of the rarest NGP games, and regularly goes for triple figures on fleaBay.

davyK

Escape

Best:

Eric

I miss old SEGA

Escape

I miss old Sony.

davyK

Booted the old SNES up yesterday and played with a few carriages. SMK is still a great game in my mind. Maybe it's just the nostalgia kicking in but the track design is truly brilliant ; especially once you know them.

Gave Super Tennis and Namco's Smash Tennis a quick blast too. They both look better than I thought they would though Smash is better looking as I suspected - and is still pretty slick. One thing is noticeable though going from Virtua Tennis to these older games - they start out far tougher. And serving the ball isn't a gimme either - you really have to put some effort in timing it. Nice.

retroking1981

Love Super Tennis, still my go to Tennis game.

cockbeard

Escape wrote:

I miss old Sony

I don't think I recreated him here, he is retired

davyK

That PS1 intro is great. Probably tops the Saturn one but only just. I think the Western intro is the best of these.....

Moot_Geeza

The PS logo followed by the doo-doo-doo-doodoodooo.... Konami thing on MGS was about as good as it got.

retroking1981

Konami 16Bit jingle was tops for me.

mk64

davyK wrote:

retroking1981 wrote:

I can see that point of view. The Saturns strengths are clear now and much like the best 16Bit output it's arguably aged better than the early 3D stuff. Knowing what I know now though I'd still have ignored it for PS and N64, the excitement at that 3D evolution was very real. Wrong console at the wrong time, Mega CD/32X and the East West divide at Sega were it's problems. In hindsight it never stood a chance.

I was caught up in the hype for 3D too - though I wasn't completely swept away by it. My first console that generation was N64 - sold entirely on Mario 64 - though with the added spice of updates for Mario Kart , F-Zero and Pilotwings. I waited for all 3 consoles to come out though I will admit I was a bit of a Nintard back then. But I wasn't all that impressed by what I saw in the PS and Saturn demo pods - they only strengthend my will to hold out for what Nintendo had in store and M64 blew everything away when it appeared. Thing with N64 was while its big games were great they didn't scratch my arcade experience itch. I wanted to play good arcade racing games and shooters. And that's why my 2nd console that gen was Saturn. I picked up one for dirt cheap pre-owned and I can remember the games I got with it....Sega Rally, Darius Gaiden and Loaded. Sega Rally and Darius Gaiden were exactly what I was looking for. Loaded left me cold though - offloaded that but I bought up a pile of PAL Saturn games going for a song at the time. PS came later - sold to me on the strength of unusual games such as Parrapa The Rapper but also the retro compilations from the likes of Capcom and Namco. I never really bought into the typical PS adventure game with narrative led play but I amassed a decent library of quirky and older school games for it. In terms of my gaming tastes, Saturn wins that gen - but I can why its library couldn't have won back then. It was the same with Dreamcast sadly.

This is an interesting post. The N64 had almost no games which felt anything like games which had been played in the arcades during the 90's. The art-style and 3d played a part in that.

I think that's probably a big reason it got shunned. Lack of SF etc.

retroking1981

Easy to forget most were fed up of 2D for the most part.

As much as I love the 16Bit era, by the end it was generic as fuck and over flooded with the very genres that the Saturn was great at. The 3D revolution was exactly what gaming needed at the time.

I'm sure a good percentage of people that love the Saturn now didn't have one back in the day.

The Saturn and DC have a crazy amount of love considering how poorly they sold.

I know people like us are a vocal minority talking in small groups but it surprises me they didn't sell better with the amount of retrospective attention they get.

Makes me wonder if the Wii U will follow suit.

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