Retro Gaming - The Bear and Badger

AJ

PAL and NTSC are the colour systems, yeah, but I think the refresh rate needs to be specified as part of it or something because it's analogue. Might be interesting to read up on, if you're that way inclined (I am, but am also incredibly lazy so may not get around to it).

davyK

You may well be right. Don't know enough about it.

I do know that the 50/60Hz thing is linked to the domestic power supply which probably had a large impact on how old TVs worked - so maybe it is tied in with 525/625 line thing as well.

I hadn't heard of PAL60 until the Dreamcast came along. Kind of annoying it wasn't an option in earlier consoles.

ChopperByrne

Lots of GC games supported PAL60.

Unfortunately, lots of TVs didn't.

davyK

You need RGB SCART for PAL60 to work as well as having a TV to support it.

AJ

I'm glad everything's settled on a single standard now. I used to get really confused with all the SCART and S-video and component stuff and what was better for what.

davyK

Oh yes.

I keep a 25" CRT for pre Dreamcast consoles - they just look so much better that way.

However I'm looking at the OSSC as a way of converting them all to HDMI.

However the 2600 and 7800 remain best on a CRT for now.

Blue Swirl

Off the top of my head, 525 for PAL, with NTSC rocking 475?

poprock

Nah, 525 was NTSC. PAL was over 600.

*Edit: 625 according to Google.

davyK

Aye - PAL has 100 lines extra.

Blue Swirl

Ah, I hang my head in shame. I knew 525 was involved somewhere...

davyK

Wifey bought a chair today to match the Asteroids side art. To say she is understanding is somewhat of an understatement.

42884627_1420401288104103_2457205606709198848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&oh=403d048311b5695d5a5aa4be1b70cde3&oe=5C1ACC5C

42884627_1420401288104103_2457205606709198848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&oh=403d048311b5695d5a5aa4be1b70cde3&oe=5C1ACC5C

mrsmr2

So if you are using rgb then it’s not pal60? It’s using the 3 colour channels and sync, I think.

I’ve always got confused by pal60 because everything I’ve connected is via rgb scart, including us snes.

I guess pal60 is for broadcast countries like brazil (pal but 60Hz). I would associate pal60 with rf connections.

davyK

Don't know - all I know is that to get 60Hz on a DC, PS2 or GC you need an RGB SCART cable.

I'm pretty sure that is stated in the game manuals. It is also my experience with the CRT I use with them. I either get a blank screen with sound or a b&w image otherwise.

However my modded SNES runs at 60Hz on my CRT via an s-video hookup but I think that is an oddity about the TV. My JPN N64 and GC don't have RGB SCART and they run in b&w via s-video.

(Have since got a modded JP N64 with RGB SCART and it works fine).

I also run 60Hz PAL games on my woody 2600 and they work fine.

The 2600 is an interesting one - to create a PAL60 game you take the NTSC ROM, disassemble the code - change the colour values for the PAL machine and then reassemble the ROM.

There is an easier way to do it but it doesn't always work - you can change the timings on the main display loop code of a PAL ROM to make it run at 60Hz. I don't have the skills for that - need to develop a better understanding of 2600 frame timings. As I say - it doesn't always work anyhow - it's more dependable to start with an NTSC ROM and change the colour values. That's tougher because it's a pain in the arse searching and debugging the code trying to find which bytes are colour values.

This is what made me think that refresh rates are not necessarily related to PAL and NTSC standards.

mrsmr2

Ok, here's something to puzzle over.

When I first moved in with my future wife, her TV was a decent sized CRT without a scart socket, it only had RF. I could get 60Hz DC games to work by connecting the DC to my video recorder (can't remember if it was was RGB scart or composite scart) and via rf from the video recorder to the TV. Colour was fine although the tube wasn't entirely happy run at 60Hz as the image squeezed at the top right of the screen as if a part had been pushed inwards.

Not sure if the video was re-encoding if the scart was rgb, or passing through the composite signal (if not using rgb scart). But I'm also not sure if you can pass through to RF that way either.

Rambling now, but something that always puzzled me at the time.

Blue Swirl

davyK

mrsmr2 wrote:

Ok, here's something to puzzle over. When I first moved in with my future wife, her TV was a decent sized CRT without a scart socket, it only had RF. I could get 60Hz DC games to work by connecting the DC to my video recorder (can't remember if it was was RGB scart or composite scart) and via rf from the video recorder to the TV. Colour was fine although the tube wasn't entirely happy run at 60Hz as the image squeezed at the top right of the screen as if a part had been pushed inwards. Not sure if the video was re-encoding if the scart was rgb, or passing through the composite signal (if not using rgb scart). But I'm also not sure if you can pass through to RF that way either. Rambling now, but something that always puzzled me at the time.

I have heard of people using a VCR that way to convert RF or composite to SCART. It depends on the internal workings of the VCR I suspect. But - if the VCR outputs true RGB SCART then there is every reason to give it a try. It might not be as crisp because ultimately the VCR's tuner is part of the chain of circuitry and the output will be limited by that.

Sometimes later models will convert NTSC to PAL as well.

davyK

AJ wrote:

Just watched a video review of the Neo Geo Mini. Looks like they dropped the ball again. Would work as a desk toy, but seems fucking awful for serious play; upscaling's a mess and the controllers are total shite. Crossing that off my wishlist.

Reviews by Ashens and MetalJesus confirm this.

Why can't they get this right?

zonipoi

So I bought the memory card for Saturn but now I can't get either it or the Action Replay to work anymore. Seems like a busted cartridge slot. Have a modded console (and another PAL on storage that hopefully has a working slot for at least Dragon Force) so it's not the end of the world but still infuriating.

Few places mentioned hot swapping the internal battery so you wouldn't lose your saves. Has anyone tried that and can it be done safely?

Also, how long should I expect the internal battery to last? It's been in soon for a year, how long should it have left? Console has been plugged in all that time if it makes a difference.

mk64

I'm going to start playing by O GB again

zonipoi

https://youtu.be/OjZgjGUTShU

This worked!

Eric

That's good to know Zonipoi just in case it happens to mine!

davyK

Internal battery is user replaceable - there's a little hatch at the back to open. It's a standard CR2032 button battery easy to replace.

Re the cartridge slot - try jiggling the cart about a bit - or after seating it lift the cart up a millimetre or two before trying it again. It can be temperamental.

retroking1981

Got my first issue of Retro Gamer through, no sign of the 8-Bit Do pad though :-(

Moot_Geeza

Mine took about 5wks to arrive.

davyK

Playing Asteroids Dx tonight and learned something new about the game.

I was a few hundred points short of 30,000 and on my last life. I have the game set to give a 1up every 10,000 (which is the default option). A ufo pops up on the screen and I take aim and fire at it.

The wee bastard got his shot off first and took me out. Game Over.

Except it wasn't. The game kept going until my shots completed their journey. One of the bullets I had fired before I was taken out took the UFO out , gave me 1000pts and a 1up. Game continues.

Broke 50K again tonight for the first time in several weeks too.

Moot_Geeza

I find Digital Foundry videos among the dullest in all videogamedom, yet Digital Foundry Retro vids among the most entertaining. Probably because I used to care deeeply about all this sort of stuff:

retroking1981

Yeah I watch all their videos, good stuff.

afgavinstan

Shameless Cross thread plug for my glut of games I'm selling in the Selling Items thread. Some good stuff there, dating back to the MD. Badger prices in effect. Have a gander.

davyK

Some nice shmups in the 360 list. Already have them.

davyK

Moot_Geeza wrote:

I find Digital Foundry videos among the dullest in all videogamedom, yet Digital Foundry Retro vids among the most entertaining. Probably because I used to care deeeply about all this sort of stuff:

Apart from Orta on the Oldbox (which I'd love to try) have there any other post-Saturn PD games?

I think Orta works on 360 now so may get it at some point.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories