Retro Gaming - The Bear and Badger

cockbeard

davyK wrote:

Eric wrote:

I didn't even know it got a realese on the 360! The DC version doesn't play nicely with the vga which means it never gets an impulse play anymore which is a shame. Need to dig out my scart connection.

That's a surprise - I must never have tried playing it on my VGA DC - or else I did and have since forgot. My VGA box has s-video out as a backup option but you have to manually switch it on the box. My backup DC is hooked up with RGB SCART to the CRT.

Bangai O doesn't work with the arcade stick either which would have been a nice option to have.

There's a few others that won't work with VGA that surprised me - though some of them will if you use the DC-X boot disc beforehand - an unnecessary faff though....Capcom v SNK doesn't support it which is puzzling giving it was a later release.

If it works with the boot disc, is it possible to patch the disc image and just write it to a dvd?? Just a thought, would mean you can keep your disc in good nick and still play on og hardware, if someone's already done it or it's simple enough???

mk64

has anyone seen this before?!?!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-Nintendo-BT-Interactive-TV-Cart-Impossible-To-Find-Another-SNES/193529612182?hash=item2d0f438796:g:z10AAOSwtANebl9w

retroking1981

Heard of it, never seen one though.

Eric

cockbeard wrote:

davyK wrote:

Eric wrote:

I didn't even know it got a realese on the 360! The DC version doesn't play nicely with the vga which means it never gets an impulse play anymore which is a shame. Need to dig out my scart connection.

That's a surprise - I must never have tried playing it on my VGA DC - or else I did and have since forgot. My VGA box has s-video out as a backup option but you have to manually switch it on the box. My backup DC is hooked up with RGB SCART to the CRT.

Bangai O doesn't work with the arcade stick either which would have been a nice option to have.

There's a few others that won't work with VGA that surprised me - though some of them will if you use the DC-X boot disc beforehand - an unnecessary faff though....Capcom v SNK doesn't support it which is puzzling giving it was a later release.

If it works with the boot disc, is it possible to patch the disc image and just write it to a dvd?? Just a thought, would mean you can keep your disc in good nick and still play on og hardware, if someone's already done it or it's simple enough???

You can definitely do that Cocko the problem is reading the info off cdrs (remember the DC used GD roms) wrecks the optical drive apparently.

Ideally I'll swap out my optical drive for a Gdemu which looks simple enough (zero soldering) , then it's just a matter of loading the prepatched rom.

cockbeard

Ahh, I didn't know that about it wrecking the drive, but I can imagine that all the extra seeks might not be for the gearing. Bloody optical discs, I thought the whole point was they non destructive, yet still, why does no media ever actually make it to the future??

davyK

Aye. There are several solid state solutions for Dreamcast now though.

I'm not biting yet but it's only a matter of time. Even if I do I can't see me ditching my physical collection. But maybe I'm holding on too tight....legalities aside, if there is an argument for going with ROMs and ISOs it's with disc based consoles.

I have burned the odd disc myself but it's only to be able to try a game for 5-10mins - it has convinced me that Gigawing 2 is worth getting. But I wouldn't put any play time in using a burned disc.

davyK

Eric wrote:

It's a bit frustrating. Nice that your vga box has a svideo out though. I've tried to force it using that DC X boot disc but it sometimes results in glitches. Think you've mentioned that Gunbird 2 does this.

The list isn't actually that long but there are a couple of big Capcom titles which is surprising:
https://www.epforums.org/showthread.php?42182-Dreamcast-VGA-Compatability-list

yeah Gunbird 2 doesn't play - I think it might be OK until you try TATE though - that's when it glitches.

Bust-A-Move 4 won't play but it works with a boot disc - bit I noticed a very occasional glitch on the title screen. A bit of a pain having to use a boot disc really and no excuse - it's a Windows CE game like Sega Rally 2 which works with VGA (actually benefits as it sorts out the frame rate a bit). A shame as BAM4 looks gorgeous on VGA - blasts off the screen - still lovely on the CRT though.

davyK

First adventure into town today since lockdown. Called into the Nespresso shop with my empty capsules and replenished my stock, picked up a couple of LPs for £30 in the HMV sale, then went into GAME.

Depressing as usual - however I spotted a Retro HD NES for sale - £20 pre-owned.

What is this exactly? Does it play Famicom games or is it just NES (US & PAL) games? I didn't have energy to quiz staff as in my experience the Belfast GAME staff aren't exactly knowledgable in retro gaming.

I've also read it isn't emulating - anyone know anything about this?

retroking1981

For £20 I'm guessing it's a retron?

They're by Hyperkin, the most famous model is the retron5 which plays NES/FC, SNES/SFC, GBA, GBC, GB and MD/Genesis.

They basically use the cartridge to flash the ROM to the system and emulate it. Sounds odd but it gives the advantage of using save states.

I'm guessing the NES one you saw is just that, a NES one with no FC compatibility as on the retron5 it had a separate cartridge slot as FC uses less pins than the NES.

Maybe the single system models they do don't rip the ROM and emulate?

davyK

Ah. Didnt realise they are physically different to the point that they need different slots. If i had held onto my boxed copy of Dropzone i may have picked it up there and then. That gets good prices on eBay now. NES got the best implementation of Boulderdash .. had that boxed...Solar jetman too. Sigh. Another collecting rabbit hole. Best left on the shelf then.

Blue Swirl

"L is real 2401" becomes true after 24 years and one month, thanks to some leaked Nintendo files that include Mario 64 beta builds.

EvilRedEye

More Pocket details are out, up for pre-order next Monday. Pocket is $199, Dock is $99, a whole bunch of accessories are also available.

davyK

I have started going through my PAL PS2 collection. I think I will be doing some weeding.

Amplitude. Incredible game. I knew it was a good 'un but was afraid to return to it. Played it on component - looks and sounds great. Didn't notice a 60Hz option but that might pop up in RGB mode - will check that out. However even if it is 50Hz only I presume this game isn't a hack job as the genre isn't tolerant of anything like that. The music has to be right and synched with the game after all.

Bombastic was up next. PAL hatchet job. Jesus. This should be gorgeous. Looks bloody awful on the CRT with RGB but It seems OK with the component setup on my LCD though. There's the option to switch to classic Devil Dice mode which gives me scope of offload the PS1 version of that (which of course is a 50Hz border patrol too). Fuck PAL.

Capcom Gen Vol.1 is a bloody hatchet job. I can't believe I held onto it. No 50Hz and there has been some clumsy effort at speed adjusting it. Horrific. With RGB SCART the games take on the console screen setting - stretch-o-vision ahoy. With component the original ratio is retained but the 50Hz butchering is intact. Such a pity as it is a really solid lineup. 194x series , G&G series inc. Super G&G, SF2,SFCE and SF2T etc. Criminal. It's for the chop I'm afraid.

What makes it all the more painful is that Vol 2. does it right. 50Hz,60Hz and progressive scan options. Problem is the game lineup isn't all that hot. There's a few nice shmups in there but this volume is heavy on fighters and scrolling brawlers which aren't my cup of tea. I may seek out the JP version of Vol.1 but it's probably expensive now. No TATE for vertical shooters either.

zonipoi

I'm so glad I don't mind 50hz PAL and intend to keep it that way. Anytime I see a comparison of 50Hz/60Hz on some random Youtube video I turn my head away.

regmcfly

EvilRedEye wrote:

More Pocket details are out, up for pre-order next Monday. Pocket is $199, Dock is $99, a whole bunch of accessories are also available.

I would desire one very muchly but they're doing that Apple thing of gouging for the "full experience" e.g. Dock, other system adaptors, the daft see through case. Would reckon a whole thing will be $500 odd.

Still an absolute looker and I would love to see my GB-GBA stuff on that screen.

davyK

zonipoi wrote:

I'm so glad I don't mind 50hz PAL and intend to keep it that way. Anytime I see a comparison of 50Hz/60Hz on some random Youtube video I turn my head away.

Sometimes it really doesn't matter. Ps2 games such as Fantavision, Amplitude, Gitaroo Man for example - these games seem to have been properly developed/converted for PAL. It's when the game has clearly been developed for NTSC and is just shunted across with no adjustment at all that I find it intolerable. Huge borders, sluggish gameplay - Taito Legends 1 for PS2 is a case in point. Thankfully it has a 60Hz mode because Bubble Bobble is murdered at 50Hz - the music and the game runs too slow and the image is squashed. Horrific.

Take a look at the PAL version of Sonic 1 on Megadrive. Sluggish, squashed - really quite awful that we were fobbed off with in some cases a really inferior product.

The Midway Collections on PS2 are 50Hz but they have clearly been adopted for PAL. The games run close to full screen and feel like they are running close to normal speed. I know the games from MAME and the arcade well enough to know they feel OK. What is odd about the Midway games is they seem to have been adjusted for widescreen too without feeling squashed. I'd be very surprised if old games like Defender etc update at 60FPS anyway - Midway games ran at 53FPS for example so PAL is closer re accuracy.

zonipoi

I know about the problems but the borders or slowness have never bothered me while playing PS1 or PS2. My Saturn has 50Hz/60Hz switch and I don't really use any older real hardware.

I'm genuinely happy about my blindness, for example replacing all my PAL PS1 games with NTSC-U would take a lot of time, effort, import taxes and on top of those eBay's global shipping program.

davyK

My road to Damascus moment was Dreamcast. The difference was striking to me. I am perhaps over zealous at times i'll admit. I have even gone back to 2600 games....all Activision games received no PAL optimisation for example. It makes all the difference with a game like Kaboom! which is crippled in PAL. I can play it indefinitely at 50hz .... it's a speed game with the sting taken out of it...and that extra speed at 60hz makes it a different game. But I have a Harmony cart that lets me play ROMs and I have even dipped into assembly language programming and got into creating PAL60 ROMs.

Sega Rally on Saturn is the opposite. Plays the same . Just tiny borders. The wipeout games, rtype delta and Vib Ribbon are examples of PAL goodness on PS1 but there are some shockers too. Sadly (for me and my wallet) my sensibilities mean I have little tolerance for it any more.

There isn't much I play on the PS2 any more really - it's a shmup console for me now and by and large they got proper PAL ports.

But there's a good chance I will end up pruning and/or converting my pan-console collection. I have already started the journey and my N64 collection comversion is almost done.

That will cost money but I don't buy modern games - there isn't much in the way of new stuff that interests me any more. That's a tiny bit sad maybe.

Moot_Geeza

As a kid there was rarely much fanfare over the slower PAL stuff. I was aware Sonic was faster elsewhere, but I'd never seen it running to compare. I didn't even notice the letterbox thing, it was often there so I tuned it out. It definitely became more of a thing in the 32-bit era in terms of what was highlighted by the gaming press. Good, near full-screen ports of VFII, Rally, Virtua Cop, Panzer Zwei and so on always got highlighted in the Sega/Saturn mags. Same with FFVII/Mario 64 and so on elsewhere iirc.

Blue Swirl

Why wiggling the Sonic 3D cartridge unlocks the level select screen.

davyK

Moot_Geeza wrote:

As a kid there was rarely much fanfare over the slower PAL stuff. I was aware Sonic was faster elsewhere, but I'd never seen it running to compare. I didn't even notice the letterbox thing, it was often there so I tuned it out. It definitely became more of a thing in the 32-bit era in terms of what was highlighted by the gaming press. Good, near full-screen ports of VFII, Rally, Virtua Cop, Panzer Zwei and so on always got highlighted in the Sega/Saturn mags. Same with FFVII/Mario 64 and so on elsewhere iirc.

I was blind to it as well. It did not affect my enjoyment of videogames one iota. I remember hearing about the whole PAL/NTSC thing and wondering what the fuss was about. I sincerely do not regret one bit of that.

But that all ended when I booted up Mr Driller in 60Hz mode on Dreamcast in the summer of 2001 and saw the screen filled to the brim and the ellipse on the title screen rendered as a circle.

Even back in the 2600 days, Atari did quite a bit of PAL optimisation but - playing some of those games today side by side is shocking.

Nintendo made an effort too at times - not too sure about NES but certainly on SNES onward. Sega got their act together on Saturn - practically all of their 1st party big games got sterling treatment. Some N64 games are shockers though - MK64 and Waverace are among the worst.

However most 3rd parties didn't care one iota. It was a difficult problem. PAL was always going to be a compromise - requiring more pixels and a higher frame rate is hard to manage when pushing the envelope. Rare on N64 managed it supremely well - some of their PAL games are considered superior in fact. I believe that PAL Goldeneye is the definitive version.

My SNES collection is largely PAL but it doesn't bother me as the unoptimised games all run as intended at 60Hz. All that's needed there is buying up the 1st party games which are cheap. It's the same with most Megadrive games too.

EvilRedEye

I've ended up prefering unoptimised Mega Drive games as you can do what you want with them on Mega Sg. If they're supposed to be 60Hz, great, your Euro cartridge is now magically 60Hz. If it's by a UK dev and designed around 50Hz, you can do that too.

davyK

Aye. Optimised games are a pain in the arse retrospectively.

Early MD games are best - will run at 60Hz fine.

Most SNES games are the same - only Nintendo's own got any attention.

If I was starting a collection now it would be NTSC every time. Fuck that complication.

retroking1981

I upgraded my SNES collection to NTSC.

Took a bit of time and effort but it was rewarding.

Took a shortcut with the N64 and just got the Everdrive.

Oddly I'm happy enough with the PAL NES collection.

davyK

I can see me trimming my PAL PS1 collection somewhat. Not necessarily because of the PAL thing - though it is a factor - just it's a console that doesn't do a lot for me. I'd hold onto a few: Parrappa, RTypes and RType Delta, Wipeout 2097 & 3SE, R4. Also have a couple of JP games like Gradius Gaiden but there's no real love for me with Playstation. It just feels a bit jank. A bit naff. A bit chav actually.

Don't know where I get off saying something like that. Makes me sound like a snooty cunt. I did get one in the day - only after the N64 and Saturn though. The oddities like Parrappa were the reason I got one though - not the likes of Wipeout which was more than a bit crap in its first version. Maybe it's that thing I have that always makes me rebel against something that's popular. Shrug.

The controller has always been shit wrt d-pad games. That's probably what always irked me about the console too.

I like the JP PS2 though.

davyK

Hooked the PS2 up to the CRT tonight. Ico needs it - it looks wretched on the LCD even with component. RGB and CRT help it a lot. I've gone through quite a few games this evening and those that didn't get 60Hz modes run more or less full screen. Bombastic runs full screen at 50Hz so I've revised my opinion of that game. It's a keeper and lets me sell my copy of Devil Dice for PS1.

Parrappa 2 is utterly charming but far more forgiving than the original. Though beating the mission is only the beginning as you unlock ranking and vs CPU modes which I suspect will be a different proposition altogether.

Contra Neo was a revelation. Feels a bit like the Dreamcast's Cannon Spike. Will be playing some more of that. Outrun C2C really is a stunning game still as well. It has a progressive scan mode for good measure.

Namco Anniversary is slick too. No 60Hz but full screen and the games feel OK re speed. It has a ropey menu system though that slows game selection up. Still. It's a keeper for me as it has some gems like Sky Kid and Rolling Thunder - two of those games that seem to get ignored in the usual ROM rollouts these things are.

The PS2 has gone back up in my estimations - not just a shmup console then. Have SoTC and Katamari to check out still.

That controller though... I have a mini HORI PS1 stick I use with PS2 for the shmups but for some reason my PAL slim won't work with it. I have my PAL fatboy set up with my rotated shmup CRT so don't want to disturb the cabling. The stick works with that and the JP slim. A shame it doesn't get on with the PAL slim as it would help a lot with the retro compilations.

The only game I tried tonight that's in the iffy pile is Star Wars Racer Revenge. I'd really like to get into this game. It's well made and still looks and sounds good. It has an interesting control option using both analogue sticks - but overall it's just missing something.

retroking1981

I was so dissaponted in Neo Contra after what I think is the best Contra ever in Shattered Soldier.

It probably wasn't a terrible game in itself but I just don't think 3D was ever a good for for Contra.

Been playing Outrun C2C on my PSP recently, fantastic game.

Star Wars Episode I Racer on N64 used the dual analog control method, although you did need two pads to do it.

That's been re-released recently, I'm tempted to pick it up on the Switch. Will boot it up on the Everdrive 64 first to see how the core experience has held up.

davyK

I really didn't think I was going to get a side Contra (which would have been brilliant btw) so I had low expectations. It's really rather well put together.

I have Ep.1 Racer on Dreamcast as well - so really I only need to hold onto one of them. There's an absence of drama which is a problem with a race game. I should try the DC version again.

Questor

Had to post about this in here because it would be very sad if this didn't reach its goal, and also some here may find it interesting, a book charting the history of Street Fighter 2. If you haven't read any of ROM's books they are always really well researched and written.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/darrenwall/like-a-hurricane/description

retroking1981

davyK wrote:

I really didn't think I was going to get a side Contra (which would have been brilliant btw) so I had low expectations. It's really rather well put together.

You do know about Shattered Soldier right?

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