It's all about having a conversation in good faith with one another. It's when the conversation isn't in good faith and the trolling starts shit goes wrong. It's fine to be aware of your (lack of?) bias but it's also good to be aware of society's bias as well.

LivDiv wrote:

Actually I will go further than say Change.org does nothing. I think it enables the government to pretend they care. They at most will open an investigation, shove some croney on the job on our cash. Have a cabinet reshuffle, ditch the report before it released and forget all about it. Our government isn't fit to tackle these issues because they don't care/benefit from them/cause them in the first place.

I've seen what happens to petitions under this government too, but if someone puts one under my nose, and I believe in it, I do sign.

That's not the very best we can do, but it's something.
If we're honest about it, it's a little better than just discussing it on an anonymous board.

Paul the sparky wrote:

[We have discussed it, many times, in this thread and others. I don't think it applied to Davy's post and saw it as a bit of a knowledge bomb being dropped, virtue signaling to reap the right on high fives.

I can help you out here, this is complete and utter bollocks.

Not Dante.

Why is it bollocks Dante? Is that an absolute impossibility?

That's fine

Look at the big fat but there, totally negating everything that went before it

dynamiteReady wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

Actually I will go further than say Change.org does nothing. I think it enables the government to pretend they care. They at most will open an investigation, shove some croney on the job on our cash. Have a cabinet reshuffle, ditch the report before it released and forget all about it. Our government isn't fit to tackle these issues because they don't care/benefit from them/cause them in the first place.

I've seen what happens to petitions under this government too, but if someone puts one under my nose, and I believe in it, I do sign.

That's not the very best we can do, but it's something.
If we're honest about it, it's a little better than just discussing it on an anonymous board.

I am very aware that I am a whitey lecturing on the best moves to tackle racism on said forum as well.

The racism I'm talking about did indeed occur after the event, and not in Davy's mind as he watched it

Yossarian wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

Look at the big fat but there, totally negating everything that went before it

But it doesn’t.

RedDave2 wrote:

" you might think you aren't racist, but subconsciously you are" and I dont think that's a great place to go.

Couldn’t disagree with this more.

Examining unconscious bias is absolutely a useful tool, and one that I would encourage everyone to do. My work has unconscious bias training as a mandatory training module, and we’re far from alone, many, many businesses in the U.K. do the same.

Hey Yoss, I'm not accusing you of having bad breath and poor dental hygiene, but have you ever thought about brushing your teeth?

Examining unconscious bias is exactly what Davy was doing by sharing his thoughts after learning about the racist tweets, wasn't it?

Then he got lectured at for it. Bit off to me but you're free to disagree

DrewMerson wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

The racism I'm talking about did indeed occur after the event, and not in Davy's mind as he watched it

No, you saw some of the racism after the event. Are you telling me that as those players were stepping up they weren’t thinking at all about the racism they have been subjected to already, and the extra abuse that would come their way if they failed?

I've never mentioned what was going through the player's minds. What is your point here?

Paul the sparky wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

Look at the big fat but there, totally negating everything that went before it

But it doesn’t.

RedDave2 wrote:

" you might think you aren't racist, but subconsciously you are" and I dont think that's a great place to go.

Couldn’t disagree with this more.

Examining unconscious bias is absolutely a useful tool, and one that I would encourage everyone to do. My work has unconscious bias training as a mandatory training module, and we’re far from alone, many, many businesses in the U.K. do the same.

Hey Yoss, I'm not accusing you of having bad breath and poor dental hygiene, but have you ever thought about brushing your teeth?

I’m afraid that I don’t see the link between this sentence and the previous sentence except for the fact that it has but in the middle of it. Not every sentence containing the word “but” has a second half that negates the first, but it’s true that some do.

Examining unconscious bias is exactly what Davy was doing by sharing his thoughts after learning about the racist tweets, wasn't it?

Then he got lectured at for it. Bit off to me but you're free to disagree

No, that’s not examining unconscious bias, and I don’t think Davy got lectured.

DrewMerson wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

I've never mentioned what was going through the player's minds. What is your point here?

My point is that it’s not remotely helpful to describe the racist abuse as being ‘after the event’. There’s an increase, and it gets more attention. But it’s easy for most of us, because if we want, we can switch off to it then only be outraged on an occasional basis when the level of abuse peaks and is considered newsworthy. My point is that while it’s laudable that someone holds no racist views and isn’t thinking about a player’s race while watching football, in doing so it fails to recognise that those players don’t have that luxury. My point is that talking about the problem is not introducing a problem that didn’t exist until it was spoken about, as has been suggested in this thread.

Who suggested racism and racist abuse didn't exist until it was spoken about? Me?

Some funny old takes in this thread like

LivDiv wrote:

I am very aware that I am a whitey lecturing on the best moves to tackle racism on said forum as well.

Heck, the most memorable petition I could ever remember signing, was one about the treatment Falun Gong prisoners in the middle of Chinatown.

I was actually somewhat 'culturally aware' of the differences between the Falun Gong movement and wider Chinese society when I signed it, but 'cultural awareness' didn't help me sign that petition.

I digress. One group of people should not be able to use the excuse of a bad penalty shootout, as an excuse to treat a large number of people like shit. 'Cultural awareness' is not necessary to divine the truth, or a remedial course of action for this problem.

I find it frustrating to see people put so much effort into ignoring, excusing and obfuscating that though.