Yossarian wrote:There wasn’t a “challenge” to Davy’s post, there was some knowledge being shared in a polite and respectful way.
LivDiv wrote:Actually I will go further than say Change.org does nothing. I think it enables the government to pretend they care. They at most will open an investigation, shove some croney on the job on our cash. Have a cabinet reshuffle, ditch the report before it released and forget all about it. Our government isn't fit to tackle these issues because they don't care/benefit from them/cause them in the first place.
Paul the sparky wrote:Yossarian wrote:There wasn’t a “challenge” to Davy’s post, there was some knowledge being shared in a polite and respectful way.
Dunno like. He was accused of using dangerous language while expressing his thoughts on how he felt learning about the racist abuse the england lads were subjected to. Felt like he was being pulled up to me
Paul the sparky wrote:[We have discussed it, many times, in this thread and others. I don't think it applied to Davy's post and saw it as a bit of a knowledge bomb being dropped, virtue signaling to reap the right on high fives.
Paul the sparky wrote:Dunno like. He was accused of using dangerous language while expressing his thoughts on how he felt learning about the racist abuse the england lads were subjected to. Felt like he was being pulled up to meYossarian wrote:There wasn’t a “challenge” to Davy’s post, there was some knowledge being shared in a polite and respectful way.
Frosty wrote:I'm not accusing you here but I think it's something to be aware of when saying things like that.
dynamiteReady wrote:LivDiv wrote:Actually I will go further than say Change.org does nothing. I think it enables the government to pretend they care. They at most will open an investigation, shove some croney on the job on our cash. Have a cabinet reshuffle, ditch the report before it released and forget all about it. Our government isn't fit to tackle these issues because they don't care/benefit from them/cause them in the first place.
I've seen what happens to petitions under this government too, but if someone puts one under my nose, and I believe in it, I do sign.
That's not the very best we can do, but it's something.
If we're honest about it, it's a little better than just discussing it on an anonymous board.
Paul the sparky wrote:Look at the big fat but there, totally negating everything that went before it
RedDave2 wrote:" you might think you aren't racist, but subconsciously you are" and I dont think that's a great place to go.
Yossarian wrote:Paul the sparky wrote:Look at the big fat but there, totally negating everything that went before it
But it doesn’t.
RedDave2 wrote:" you might think you aren't racist, but subconsciously you are" and I dont think that's a great place to go.
Couldn’t disagree with this more.
Examining unconscious bias is absolutely a useful tool, and one that I would encourage everyone to do. My work has unconscious bias training as a mandatory training module, and we’re far from alone, many, many businesses in the U.K. do the same.
RedDave2 wrote:Edit: just a thought - for those of you saying that we do see skin tone and our reactions are subconscious - do you believe your own subconscious to have a racist bias? Do you make a judgement on a person based on their skin tone alone, positively or negatively?
If you don't, why do you assume that the default is for others that they do?
DrewMerson wrote:Paul the sparky wrote:The racism I'm talking about did indeed occur after the event, and not in Davy's mind as he watched it
No, you saw some of the racism after the event. Are you telling me that as those players were stepping up they weren’t thinking at all about the racism they have been subjected to already, and the extra abuse that would come their way if they failed?
Yossarian wrote:Yeah, the term virtue-signalling can fuck off into the sun. Such a nasty and small-minded way to try to undermine people.
Paul the sparky wrote:Yossarian wrote:Paul the sparky wrote:Look at the big fat but there, totally negating everything that went before it
But it doesn’t.
RedDave2 wrote:" you might think you aren't racist, but subconsciously you are" and I dont think that's a great place to go.
Couldn’t disagree with this more.
Examining unconscious bias is absolutely a useful tool, and one that I would encourage everyone to do. My work has unconscious bias training as a mandatory training module, and we’re far from alone, many, many businesses in the U.K. do the same.
Hey Yoss, I'm not accusing you of having bad breath and poor dental hygiene, but have you ever thought about brushing your teeth?
Examining unconscious bias is exactly what Davy was doing by sharing his thoughts after learning about the racist tweets, wasn't it?
Then he got lectured at for it. Bit off to me but you're free to disagree
RedDave2 wrote:I didn't say it wasn't useful , I actually think it's an interesting concept. But having a bias towards someone is a sizable step from bring racist towards someone.
Taking your job example, let's say equal people show up and one is black and one is white and I hire the white person because I feel I identify with them more. OK, that might be unfair but if 2 white people showed up , one will still benefit from some connection with me. And if 2 black people reached are the final two, I'd still be hiring a black person. Racism (to me) would be to not hire the black person because of their skin or to hire a lesser white person over a more qualified black person.
DrewMerson wrote:Paul the sparky wrote:I've never mentioned what was going through the player's minds. What is your point here?
My point is that it’s not remotely helpful to describe the racist abuse as being ‘after the event’. There’s an increase, and it gets more attention. But it’s easy for most of us, because if we want, we can switch off to it then only be outraged on an occasional basis when the level of abuse peaks and is considered newsworthy. My point is that while it’s laudable that someone holds no racist views and isn’t thinking about a player’s race while watching football, in doing so it fails to recognise that those players don’t have that luxury. My point is that talking about the problem is not introducing a problem that didn’t exist until it was spoken about, as has been suggested in this thread.
LivDiv wrote:I am very aware that I am a whitey lecturing on the best moves to tackle racism on said forum as well.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!